Vaping among young people

[GG Riva]

This phenomenon has belatedly made the national news tonight. While many are of the opinion that E cigs are less harmful than tobacco, it's disturbing to contemplate that kids who have never smoked tobacco are now choosing to vape.

I'm reliably informed that the practice is rife in our secondary schools and has even been detected in some of our local West Fife primary schools. Two things I take issue with are that kids should not be able to get their hands on these products and that they should not be so flavoursome. I haven't tried vaping myself but I know people who do and they tell me the flavour is even better than the smell.

Edited March 10, 2023 by GG Riva

[buspasspar]

Its crazy GG .. almost like a status symbol .. and the amount of smoke they exhale is frightening .. Is it another slow killer .. time will tell 

[parsforlife]

Its a pity that being seen to be safer than tobacco(which I think they by far are from what I read) has generally meant the industry has allowed to explode with little regulation.

As for kids not being able to get there hands on them,  there's nothing stopping it truly, cigarettes and alcohol have always found there way into underage hands as have far more illicit substances without too much effort,   there is no way to completely stop things beyond regulation at the point of sale which we have already.    Flavours could be regulated against I guess,  just as menthol fags have been banned, but I believe the nature of the liquid means they are pretty easy to flavour however the hell you want even DIY.  

I don't have any answers here,   some more control could be handy but I don't think it will truly make a dent,  especially until any health impacts are confirmed black and white,  which we we'll unlikely have for a few decades and even then things were made very clear about smoking and drinking decades ago and only had very slow drop offs in use over time.  

[Teuchter]

25 minutes ago, GG Riva said:

This phenomenon has belatedly made the national news tonight. While many are of the opinion that E cigs are less harmful than tobacco, it's disturbing to contemplate that kids who have never smoked tobacco are own choosing to vape.

I'm reliably informed that the practice is rife in our secondary schools and has even been detected in some of our local West Fife primary schools. Two things I take issue with are that kids should not be able to get their hands on these products and that they should not be so flavoursome. I haven`t tried vaping myself but I know people who do and they tell me the flavour is even better than the smell.

Is it as prevalent as cigarettes were a few decades ago in schools do you know? 

I used to assume that vapes were cigarette substitutes for smokers. Seems not.

On the other side, it is a striking how few smokers there are these days - or at least that is how it seems to me. Not sure what the statistics are and if smoking has dramatically decreased.
 

[GG Riva]

7 minutes ago, Teuchter said:

Is it as prevalent as cigarettes were a few decades ago in schools do you know? 

I used to assume that vapes were cigarette substitutes for smokers. Seems not.

On the other side, it is a striking how few smokers there are these days - or at least that is how it seems to me. Not sure what the statistics are and if smoking has dramatically decreased.
 

I don't know the stats for school kids, but I remember the BBC reporting that the number of female smokers ( 37%) had overtaken males. (36%) This was late 70s, I think. Outlawing smoking in enclosed public places was the single act which produced the biggest drop in smoking - last I checked it was 19% of the population -but I'm sure the regular price increases have contributed significantly. Some cigs now cost as much as £15 for 20. That's 75p per fag. 🥴

[buspasspar]

I can remember at primary school back in the early 50's the usual suspects rubbing the nicotine from their fingers on the wall before they had to show them at the school dinner hall 

[Digs]

On 10/03/2023 at 19:32, Teuchter said:

Is it as prevalent as cigarettes were a few decades ago in schools do you know? 

 

As someone with a teenage daughter, I can tell you it absolutely is and worse, it's mostly kids who have never had a fag in their life.

On 10/03/2023 at 19:47, GG Riva said:

. Outlawing smoking in enclosed public places was the single act which produced the biggest drop in smoking 

Aye, now though unfortunately those who vape instead of smoke, seem to think that not doing it inside doesn't apply to them. Seen this every time I've been in a pub this month alone. If I wanted to inhale massive clouds of candy floss, I'd set fire to a cart at the shows...

The thing that always bothered me about some smokers and now vapers is that a huge amount of them seem to think that it's ok for other folk to have to inhale their reek whether they want to or not and it's somehow their problem if it annoys them.

[GG Riva]

21 hours ago, Digs said:

As someone with a teenage daughter, I can tell you it absolutely is and worse, it's mostly kids who have never had a fag in their life.

Aye, now though unfortunately those who vape instead of smoke, seem to think that not doing it inside doesn't apply to them. Seen this every time I've been in a pub this month alone. If I wanted to inhale massive clouds of candy floss, I'd set fire to a cart at the shows...

The thing that always bothered me about some smokers and now vapers is that a huge amount of them seem to think that it's ok for other folk to have to inhale their reek whether they want to or not and it's somehow their problem if it annoys them.

When smokers represented almost 40% of the population, the non smoking majority appeared to have no voice. You were not expected to protest if someone lit up next to you in the cinema, on a plane, or in a restaurant and you were ignored if you did. Speaking as a former smoker, I wasn't aware of just how obnoxious it was for non smokers to put up with. I would think nothing of lighting up in my car, as long as I opened the window for any passengers. I can't believe how crass I was back then - I quit almost 40 years ago. 

Of course, there were other smokers who were even more selfish and didn't care about the feelings of others. We'll after I stopped, I had relatives coming to my house and lighting up without even asking permission. I can't imagine such a scenario now - attitudes have changed completely and smokers now realise they're a small minority and can't do as they please.

Perhaps those who vape mow are blissfully unaware that others don't like their candy floss fumes?

[Digs]

1 hour ago, GG Riva said:

When smokers represented almost 40% of the population, the non smoking majority appeared to have no voice. You were not expected to protest if someone lit up next to you in the cinema, on a plane, or in a restaurant and you were ignored if you did. Speaking as a former smoker, I wasn't aware of just how obnoxious it was for non smokers to put up with. I would think nothing of lighting up in my car, as long as I opened the window for any passengers. I can't believe how crass I was back then - I quit almost 40 years ago. 

Of course, there were other smokers who were even more selfish and didn't care about the feelings of others. We'll after I stopped, I had relatives coming to my house and lighting up without even asking permission. I can't imagine such a scenario now - attitudes have changed completely and smokers now realise they're a small minority and can't do as they please.

Perhaps those who vape mow are blissfully unaware that others don't like their candy floss fumes?

That's the thing, I was never a fervent anti-smoker. My dad has smoked all his life and used to smoke in the house, in the car when we were in it, and when we went to my grans house a couple of times a week, they would both smoke in the house when we were there too. 

When I got to about 13-14 though, that changed and he only smoked outside, as did they. When I started working, I used to sit in the bothie with them all smoking, or when we went to the pub, I was the only non-smoker, I'd come home stinking but the smoke never bothered me. 

Now, after the smoking ban, I never experience it so even when I'm walking down the street and someone smokes in front of me and I walk into it, I can't stand it, it's revolting. The smoking ban is the single best piece of legislation the Scottish government has ever introduced IMO, and it needs to be better enforced by public places in regards to vapes. Smokers just wouldn't smoke where they aren't supposed to now, but for some reason, vapers seem to think it's fine to do so as it's not tobacco. It isn't, it's just as anti-social as smoking and folk who don't vape don't want to feel like they are in some candy floss themed episode of Stars In Their Eyes...

[Teuchter]

Your experience in the workplace is the opposite of mine @Digs. I was in a minority - sometimes of one - but I still puffed away in the piece room. It was only after I had served my time that things changed and smokers had to go outside. It is strange to think that a YTS / Apprentice was tolerated as the only smoker at times, but that was the way things were. The awareness and fightback only really gathered pace in the early 90s.

Even in the 80s, the first question a smoker would ask in someone else's house was not "can I smoke" but more likely "where is your ashtray" 

 

 

 

[Digs]

4 hours ago, Teuchter said:

Your experience in the workplace is the opposite of mine @Digs. I was in a minority - sometimes of one - but I still puffed away in the piece room. It was only after I had served my time that things changed and smokers had to go outside. It is strange to think that a YTS / Apprentice was tolerated as the only smoker at times, but that was the way things were. The awareness and fightback only really gathered pace in the early 90s.

Even in the 80s, the first question a smoker would ask in someone else's house was not "can I smoke" but more likely "where is your ashtray" 

 

 

 

I find most smokers attitudes have changed significantly since the ban. Most of those I know, know that it's their habit and wouldn't dream of smoking in front of you without asking. It's really interesting to me how much a law can change a culture.

[GG Riva]

23 minutes ago, Digs said:

I find most smokers attitudes have changed significantly since the ban. Most of those I know, know that it's their habit and wouldn't dream of smoking in front of you without asking. It's really interesting to me how much a law can change a culture.

Tbf, the vast majority of Scots are law abiding folk. It wouldn't cross their minds to be selfish and ignore this law. Speaking as an Italian, I can tell you many of my fellow Italians are a bit different. Their Government tried to pass a similar law in 1974. Everybody ignored. I saw people asking a ticket inspector on a train for a light and he obliged. 😨

In 2005, Italy tried again and almost every single citizen complied. The reasons? Attitudes had changed,  there was as well run information campaign on the dangers of passive smoking and bar and restaurant  owners were warned they risked massive fines and loss of licence if they allowed patrons to smoke in their premises. In 1974, the law was brought in, in isolation. 

 

[SanguinePar]

1 hour ago, Digs said:

I find most smokers attitudes have changed significantly since the ban. Most of those I know, know that it's their habit and wouldn't dream of smoking in front of you without asking. It's really interesting to me how much a law can change a culture.

Speaking of culture... I worked at a theatre at the time of the smoking ban, and you honestly would not believe the amount of hand-wringing and brow-furrowing from (some of) the creative community. 

Some directors and actors were genuinely (and I think sincerely) talking about how the smoking ban would be the end of Scottish theatre if they had to enforce it onstage - it was just inconceivable to them to have a smoking scene without a real ciggy. It was such utter self-serving nonsense, absolutely devoid of any kind of wider societal awareness.

I'm always quick to argue against the stereotype view of theatre people as blinkered luvvies, but that came as close to it as anything I saw in more than a decade. Had to bite my tongue on quite a few occasions!

 

Couple of examples: 

• John Byrne fumes at Scotland’s theatre smoking ban
• Actors fuming over smoking ban (notably, for all his bluster here, Mel Smith did not eventually flout the ban)

Also worth noting Mark Thomson (the Artistic Director at the Lyceum, where I worked) said:

"It’s censorship in every way. For artists not to be allowed to apply a level of authenticity onto classic plays from the recent past will limit the level of work chosen. You’re effectively rewriting the culture as well as the social history… Imagine, too, if someone wanted to put on a play about Winston Churchill. How do you present that without having him smoke a cigar?"

Utter nonsense. Guess who Mel Smith was playing...?

[Teuchter]

I was a smoker when the ban came in and viewed it as a positive thing. Most of the attempts I made at giving up had been derailed in the pub. 
I recall before the the ban hearing things like “aye, ah’ll nae be going outside tae ****in’ smoke”. 
After the ban: “ah’m just nipping oot fur a fag”.

The ban came in and people got used to it very quickly.

I recall that publicans were particularly guilty of getting on my tits around about that time also for their incessant moaning about the ban.

[SanguinePar]

Big piece on this in the Guardian today: https://www.theguardian.com/society/2023/mar/18/uk-health-expert-raises-alarm-at-epidemic-of-vaping-among-teenagers