League Shake-up

[El Patrón]

This has been done to death over the years, but I've always been of the opinion that Scottish football should have 2 main league's of 20 & 22 teams playing eachother twice, instead of the diluted 4 league system that we currently have.

I thought I would get it down on paper (slow day at work and internet running slower than a week in in the jail) as it is easier to visualise and also to see if there would be any major issues with gulf in class between the teams at the top/bottom of each league.

I have just taken the top 8 teams from the Championship this season and merged them with the Premier and then the remaining from Championship to League 2 are merged. Dumbarton and possibly Queen of The South will likely struggle in the top league (but so would ourselves, Falkirk, Morton, etc to begin with) but the class difference from top to bottom wouldn't be any worse than it currently is with Celtic. The promotion/relegation setup would just be the same as down south, 3 down from the top league, then 2 automatically promoted from the Championship with 3rd-6th places having a play-off. Whoever finishes bottom of the championship goes down, bringing up whoever is next in line from the lower leagues.

I don't see any real issues (other than the scum who want the Old Firm to play eachother 4 times a season) and I think it would  bring more meaning to the games by only playing twice a season.

The championship would have a couple of stronger teams, but I think any team on their day would be capable of winning.

Another benefit is that any teams sitting mid-table heading into the final 3rd of the season would have less pressure on them, meaning they can give youth a chance without the threat of relegation etc.

With only 42 teams, its ludicrous that we currently have 4 leagues.

[Vinnie]

It makes perfect sense to adopt a two tier structure.  The only thing that stops this is that the current Premier League clubs gain extra revenue if they play the bigots twice at home in a season.  This props up their bank balances slightly.  I don't necessarily believe that this overly benefits the clubs, but this seems to be the reason/party-line that is trotted out on this subject.  

Oh... and it also benefits the Old Firm by adding an extra two dates to the hate-fest, and the additional TV revenues that brings.

 

[Salvo Montalbano]

I guess the argument against such a set up is that the second division would mostly be made up of part time teams with maybe two or three able to keep a full time squad, so you'd likely find the same 3 or 4 reams changing places each season with the teams in mid-table in both league not having much to play for. You could imagine say the top 6 being quite settled and the bottom 6 being quite detached with 8 clubs knowing their season is effectively over come January. There are ways round that (mini-leagues or play-offs to decide European spots, an 8 team knock out cup for teams who don't qualify for Europe, etc but they are alien to a lot of Scottish football fans). Also, I'm assuming there would still be promotion and relegation to the feeder leagues beneath Division Two? 

[worldwiderab]

El Patrón, one small point it is The Rangers so they would be in 20th place which is where I hope they always will be.

[El Patrón]

 

It makes perfect sense to adopt a two tier structure.  The only thing that stops this is that the current Premier League clubs gain extra revenue if they play the bigots twice at home in a season.  This props up their bank balances slightly.  I don't necessarily believe that this overly benefits the clubs, but this seems to be the reason/party-line that is trotted out on this subject.  

Oh... and it also benefits the Old Firm by adding an extra two dates to the hate-fest, and the additional TV revenues that brings.

 

The budgets would just have to be adjusted to take into account the new format. Something has to change eventually as this current format is brutal.

I guess the argument against such a set up is that the second division would mostly be made up of part time teams with maybe two or three able to keep a full time squad, so you'd likely find the same 3 or 4 reams changing places each season with the teams in mid-table in both league not having much to play for. You could imagine say the top 6 being quite settled and the bottom 6 being quite detached with 8 clubs knowing their season is effectively over come January. There are ways round that (mini-leagues or play-offs to decide European spots, an 8 team knock out cup for teams who don't qualify for Europe, etc but they are alien to a lot of Scottish football fans). Also, I'm assuming there would still be promotion and relegation to the feeder leagues beneath Division Two? 

Yes, I mentioned that this would still happen.

With the majority being part-time, I don' think it would have a great bearing on the league - we were full time in League 1 and didn't exactly cruise it.

I get what you're saying about teams sitting mid-table being out of the running for play-offs and safe from relegation half way through the season and this is maybe something that could be looked at ? However down South they don't seem to be bothered by this? I think it would be a relief to some teams that they can relax and enjoy their football with no pressure, concentrate on developing as a team and give youth a go.

[ExxyJj]

I guess the argument against such a set up is that the second division would mostly be made up of part time teams with maybe two or three able to keep a full time squad, so you'd likely find the same 3 or 4 reams changing places each season with the teams in mid-table in both league not having much to play for. You could imagine say the top 6 being quite settled and the bottom 6 being quite detached with 8 clubs knowing their season is effectively over come January. There are ways round that (mini-leagues or play-offs to decide European spots, an 8 team knock out cup for teams who don't qualify for Europe, etc but they are alien to a lot of Scottish football fans). Also, I'm assuming there would still be promotion and relegation to the feeder leagues beneath Division Two? 

Having played Football Manager for a while now, I'm always interested in the bizarre concepts which FAs come up with. In the Eerste Divisie, for example, they have the typical top side being automatically promoted, but then they have the eight best teams with the best record in each quarter of the season face-off in a couple of rounds of play-offs against the 16 and 17th placed sides in the Eredivisie. As well, listening to Ziggy Gordon on Soccer FM yesterday the Ekstraklasa is another one which is interesting, where, after each club have played each other twice, the league splits in two with the top 8 playing each other in the 'Championship round', whilst the bottom 8 face off in the 'Relegation round'. 

There are plenty of concepts which could be adopted in Scotland to further backup @El Patrón's idea. But you're right really, we are stick-in-the-muds when it comes to football and our leagues.

[Vinnie]

 

It makes perfect sense to adopt a two tier structure.  The only thing that stops this is that the current Premier League clubs gain extra revenue if they play the bigots twice at home in a season.  This props up their bank balances slightly.  I don't necessarily believe that this overly benefits the clubs, but this seems to be the reason/party-line that is trotted out on this subject.  

Oh... and it also benefits the Old Firm by adding an extra two dates to the hate-fest, and the additional TV revenues that brings.

 

The budgets would just have to be adjusted to take into account the new format. Something has to change eventually as this current format is brutal

I agree.  And yes clubs should adapt their finances.  I wonder though, do the clubs still vote on matters on restructuring or TV deals anymore?  You may be asking clubs to vote to force hardship on themselves?

They may see the long term benefits, but why vote for that if their finances arent robust enough to survive the short term? 

[scottyboy]

Playing each other twice a season is the way ahead. The Scottish game needs shakin like a rag ? 

[Salvo Montalbano]

 

It makes perfect sense to adopt a two tier structure.  The only thing that stops this is that the current Premier League clubs gain extra revenue if they play the bigots twice at home in a season.  This props up their bank balances slightly.  I don't necessarily believe that this overly benefits the clubs, but this seems to be the reason/party-line that is trotted out on this subject.  

Oh... and it also benefits the Old Firm by adding an extra two dates to the hate-fest, and the additional TV revenues that brings.

 

The budgets would just have to be adjusted to take into account the new format. Something has to change eventually as this current format is brutal.

I guess the argument against such a set up is that the second division would mostly be made up of part time teams with maybe two or three able to keep a full time squad, so you'd likely find the same 3 or 4 reams changing places each season with the teams in mid-table in both league not having much to play for. You could imagine say the top 6 being quite settled and the bottom 6 being quite detached with 8 clubs knowing their season is effectively over come January. There are ways round that (mini-leagues or play-offs to decide European spots, an 8 team knock out cup for teams who don't qualify for Europe, etc but they are alien to a lot of Scottish football fans). Also, I'm assuming there would still be promotion and relegation to the feeder leagues beneath Division Two? 

Yes, I mentioned that this would still happen.

With the majority being part-time, I don' think it would have a great bearing on the league - we were full time in League 1 and didn't exactly cruise it.

I get what you're saying about teams sitting mid-table being out of the running for play-offs and safe from relegation half way through the season and this is maybe something that could be looked at ? However down South they don't seem to be bothered by this? I think it would be a relief to some teams that they can relax and enjoy their football with no pressure, concentrate on developing as a team and give youth a go.

Two points - firstly England has 7 European slots while we have four, secondly the TV money is so crazy that league placings make a big difference to prize monies. 

The Belgian league is the most strange example I think @ExxyJj. Different pools, half points rounded up, teams potentially being a point off being relegated working through play offs and qualifying for Europe, play-offs with multiple rounds and repechage rounds...

[Guest The Beer Baron]

2 leagues of 20 would become incredibly boring for most fans I'd imagine, with little to play for.

[El Patrón]

2 leagues of 20 would become incredibly boring for most fans I'd imagine, with little to play for.

As opposed to now where you play the same team 4 times a season? (Sometimes 5 or 6 depending on cups). 

[El Patrón]

 

It makes perfect sense to adopt a two tier structure.  The only thing that stops this is that the current Premier League clubs gain extra revenue if they play the bigots twice at home in a season.  This props up their bank balances slightly.  I don't necessarily believe that this overly benefits the clubs, but this seems to be the reason/party-line that is trotted out on this subject.  

Oh... and it also benefits the Old Firm by adding an extra two dates to the hate-fest, and the additional TV revenues that brings.

 

The budgets would just have to be adjusted to take into account the new format. Something has to change eventually as this current format is brutal.

I guess the argument against such a set up is that the second division would mostly be made up of part time teams with maybe two or three able to keep a full time squad, so you'd likely find the same 3 or 4 reams changing places each season with the teams in mid-table in both league not having much to play for. You could imagine say the top 6 being quite settled and the bottom 6 being quite detached with 8 clubs knowing their season is effectively over come January. There are ways round that (mini-leagues or play-offs to decide European spots, an 8 team knock out cup for teams who don't qualify for Europe, etc but they are alien to a lot of Scottish football fans). Also, I'm assuming there would still be promotion and relegation to the feeder leagues beneath Division Two? 

Yes, I mentioned that this would still happen.

With the majority being part-time, I don' think it would have a great bearing on the league - we were full time in League 1 and didn't exactly cruise it.

I get what you're saying about teams sitting mid-table being out of the running for play-offs and safe from relegation half way through the season and this is maybe something that could be looked at ? However down South they don't seem to be bothered by this? I think it would be a relief to some teams that they can relax and enjoy their football with no pressure, concentrate on developing as a team and give youth a go.

Two points - firstly England has 7 European slots while we have four, secondly the TV money is so crazy that league placings make a big difference to prize monies. 

The Belgian league is the most strange example I think @ExxyJj. Different pools, half points rounded up, teams potentially being a point off being relegated working through play offs and qualifying for Europe, play-offs with multiple rounds and repechage rounds...

The European slots are in the top league, but what about the rest of them where there's 24 teams in the leagues?  They seem to get along no bother with that amount. 

A bigger league will surely only work out for the better long term? Players get better chances to develop, managers won't get punted left right and centre due to relegations etc, they will have more time to build a team with slightly less pressure. 

I think it would be crap in the short term, but it's crap just now as it is. So why not give it a bash? I think in 10-15yrs it will pay dividends...or we just continue with the same ****e we currently have for eternity. I think it has to be worth a bash at some point.

[Guest The Beer Baron]

2 leagues of 20 would become incredibly boring for most fans I'd imagine, with little to play for.

As opposed to now where you play the same team 4 times a season? (Sometimes 5 or 6 depending on cups). 

I'd be a fan of a shake up, but I think 20 is too many. Plus, I didn't say that was my personal view, I said I'd imagine most fans would feel that way although I'd be happy to be proven wrong if it were to happen.

I'd be happy to see a top league of 16.

[El Patrón]

I was looking at different formats earlier, but 16 was too little at 30 games I thought? Also leaves only 26 other "senior" teams so too big for one league and too small for another two leagues, unless bringing some more teams up into the senior fold....

[Guest The Beer Baron]

Aye, clubs won't want to lose as many home games in a season which is a big problem. To compensate that, I'd reintroduce split gates, something like 80/20 or 75/25 to help clubs with their cash flow and even out the financial playing field a little.