No Smoke Without Fire............

[Teuchter]

5 hours ago, Vinnie said:

 

A bit naughty of you bending the truth there @GG Riva.  They arent hell bent on a No Deal

 

You have maybe missed the gist of the original post. Some of Johnson’s biggest financial backers stand to make a fortune on a no deal by betting against the pound. This is not a conspiracy theory. There is at very least a conflict of interest there.

 

[Guest The Beer Baron]

10 hours ago, Vinnie said:

Of course it is, and EU relies on our product as much as we rely on theirs.

With that in mind, with the EU is willing re-negotiate, a trade deal should be at the heart of any new discussions. 

Absolutely. It's almost as if though, that the Tories are stalling for all they can because they know what a **** show it would still mean.

[Vinnie]

14 hours ago, Teuchter said:

You have maybe missed the gist of the original post. Some of Johnson’s biggest financial backers stand to make a fortune on a no deal by betting against the pound. This is not a conspiracy theory. There is at very least a conflict of interest there.

 

I didnt miss the gist of the OP, and GG's later post in the thread is a bit of a twisting of the truth - Johnson is not "hell bent" on a No-Deal.  As I stated in my post, Johnson wants a Deal, however, the uncertainty surrounding Brexit can not continue indefinitely, so a deadline needs to be set. 

 The economy and markets wont settle down without some sort of positive action (thats positive action as in "action being taken", not positive as in "good").  

Folk are losing faith in politics and our politicians.  And one reason maybe that Parliament held a vote and arent actioning the result.  Im not a fan of Boris, I think he's a bit of a clown, I think he thinks that being Prime Minister means he rules the world and can do what he wants, bend a few parliamentary rules.  At the same time, all parties and most MP's are failing in their duties, with all their squabbling and in-fighting.  

And yep, there may be backers of Johnson who are hedging their bets?  I would too.  I dont get where I have played down folks concerns as conspiracy theory though?    

 

[Teuchter]

I wasn’t meaning to imply anything by the conspiracy theory comment. It just bears such a resemblance to one that it is hard to believe more has not been made of it. My understanding is that rather than hedging against fluctuations as part of a wider investment, some of his backers are speculatively betting against the pound.

I would say the MPs are actually doing their job properly at the moment by acting on what they believe is best for the country rather than pandering to the results of an ill advised plebiscite. I don’t think we will find a reconciliation on that point.

If the desire for Brexit is so strong then surely a post 31st October election would confirm this.

[Vinnie]

24 minutes ago, Teuchter said:

I would say the MPs are actually doing their job properly at the moment by acting on what they believe is best for the country rather than pandering to the results of an ill advised plebiscite. I don’t think we will find a reconciliation on that point.

 

So, just so Im clear, the Westminster in-fighting is a good thing, and you would have parliament reject the result of the referendum, because folk are stupid?  Or, you recognise the result of the referendum, but if we are to leave, we should leave with a some sort of deals in place? Or, lets scrap the past three years and start again? 

 

[Teuchter]

To be perfectly honest, **** knows.

Probably the following:

Depose Boris - interim govt

Postpone Brexit 

General election fought on Brexit - preferably with a mixture of electoral pacts to give people a clear choice.

 

[Vinnie]

So you dont believe in the democratic process of the Brexit referendum?  We had a vote, and the job of Westminster is to deliver the result of that vote, no? 

Admittedly, as with our Independence Referendum, Id have like to have seen a few caveats to be met to ensure to remove any contentiousness.  Such as a margin of 60% to 40%, for example, and that at least 80% of eligible voters actually cast their vote.  I think that solidifies the result as being more sound, more concrete, more acceptable and less objectionable.   

I dont particularly believe in delaying Brexit.  Businesses are operating in uncertain times, the economy and stock exchange are all over the place, weve had three years of devaluing the pound, and that needs to be addressed.  I also think that setting a date sharpens everybody's focus ahead of any new negotiations - although, as far as I can see, the only sticking point now appears to be the Irish backstop.  

[Teuchter]

9 minutes ago, Vinnie said:

 

So you dont believe in the democratic process of the Brexit referendum?  We had a vote, and the job of Westminster is to deliver the result of that vote, no? 

 

It was advisory was it not?

it was the will of 17.4 million out of  a population of 66 million, so no I don’t believe it is democracy in action for such a massive one off  decision. 

[Vinnie]

27 minutes ago, Teuchter said:

It was advisory was it not?

it was the will of 17.4 million out of  a population of 66 million, so no I don’t believe it is democracy in action for such a massive one off  decision. 

Was it advisory? I dont remember.  Although I dont see the point in a referendum with all its campaigning to simply gauge opinion.  

Anyway, as I said, Id have like to have seen a few caveats to be met to remove any contentiousness.  Such as a margin of 60% to 40%, for example, and that at least 80% of eligible voters actually cast their vote.  I think that solidifies the result as being more sound, more concrete, more acceptable and less objectionable.  Not that this particularly matters now, nor will it likely happen in the future? 

 

 

[Guest The Beer Baron]

Can't see anyone wanting such criteria for fear they'd lose, especially since the two referendums were so close.

[Vinnie]

4 minutes ago, The Beer Baron said:

Can't see anyone wanting such criteria for fear they'd lose, especially since the two referendums were so close.

But if you look at the fall out and ****storms created by such close results, it puts an element of finality to the outcome? Perhaps? 

[Guest The Beer Baron]

Nah I get it, just don't think either side wants to risk it.

[Vinnie]

Brexit will be delayed if there is still no deal by October 19th. 

From the reports Ive seen, on TV and in print, it seems that Parliament have accepted their obligation to action the result of the Referendum, but they wont do so until a Deal has been agreed. 

 

[GG Riva]

On 02/10/2019 at 11:25, Vinnie said:

I didnt miss the gist of the OP, and GG's later post in the thread is a bit of a twisting of the truth - Johnson is not "hell bent" on a No-Deal.  As I stated in my post, Johnson wants a Deal.....

 

And do you actually believe anything that man says? Please stop referring to him as Boris, as you did further down, it makes him sound like some jolly, avuncular chap, when he's really a shifty, duplicitous liar.

Pinocchio, would be more apt but sadly, his nose remains the same length, no matter how many porkies he spouts.  

[Vinnie]

I believe that we have too many print media outlets on both sides of the argument reporting in a sensationalist manner to gain readers snd clicks in a crowded market place. Both sides of the Brexit campaigns have quoted half facts as absolute facts. So much so that Im not entirely sure where the truth is.

I would rather see a tv interview, not just a clip of a quote, but the question and the answer, so that quotes cant be replayed out of context by the journalists or channels agenda. 

Do I trust Boris? No, not particularly, but then I hold little faith in Nicola, or Jeremy, or Nigel, or any of them at the moment. I think the conduct of politicians over the past 6 or 7 years has been extremely poor. They are serving their own interests as careerist politicians, rather than servingbthe people that elected them... perhaps Im being naive to hold them to a higher level.  I dont really trust any of them, but I can only vote once in my local constituency, in the grand scheme, my vote means nothing.

His name is Boris, its quicker to type, Im not entirely sure what the issue is?  In fact, by referring to him as Boris rather than Mr Johnson, in my eyes, belittles his PM position.