Serie A - Anti-Racism Row Again

[Keyser Soze]

18 minutes ago, GG Riva said:

You reckon? Just because Teuchter and I replied in a humorous way to Keyser's provocative post doesn't mean we didn't realise he was fishing, nor were our posts "bites."

 

Except I wasn't 'fishing'. I made the most obvious joke in the history of the universe and a couple of dinosaurs completely missed the point. End of.

[Piracy]

Being honest the Italians have a history of Fascism in thair own country and maybe do not understand it all too well. 

Horrendous poster by the way. Kick yourself in the baws mode. 

[GG Riva]

3 hours ago, Piracy said:

Being honest the Italians have a history of Fascism in thair own country and maybe do not understand it all too well. 

Horrendous poster by the way. Kick yourself in the baws mode. 

A history of fascism? Let's put that into perspective. Italians were subjected to fascism for a period between the two world wars by Mussolini and his followers at a time when 74% of the population were illiterate peasants, whose only goal in life was to produce enough food to survive, after having handed over 2/3 of all their produce to grasping landowners. I should know - I was born into such a family. My parents and grandparents, in common with every other peasant, had no interest or understanding of politics, nor were they interested in being dragged into a war which had nothing to do with them.

Extremism is a better description than fascism. You wouldn't describe Putin as a fascist, but the end result isvthe same. We have dangerous extremists coming into power in many countries all over the world. We even have some in Westminster.

I fear for the less fortunate in our society.

[GG Riva]

15 hours ago, Keyser Soze said:

 

Except I wasn't 'fishing'. I made the most obvious joke in the history of the universe and a couple of dinosaurs completely missed the point. End of.

Jokes by definition, are meant to be funny. The humour in your post went right over my head, I'm afraid. I wasn't offended by it - I knew full well it was an attempt at humour, but it fell well short of funny, in my humble one. Perhaps my Italian roots suggest that I'm not the most impartial person to make such a call. I'd be happy to hear from anyone who did see that as a joke.

[Vinnie]

Back on topic, and I wonder why BAME players would want to play in countries like Italy or Russia, where racism is commonplace and attempts to stop it appear half-hearted.   Obviously the money is a major draw, but why allow yourself to be degraded each and every week for a few extra quid? - at the levels of pay these guys are getting, its not like missing out on 5k or 10k a week will set them on the paths to foodbanks.  

Does it send a message of defiance to the racists?  

Of course, you should never be subjected to racist abuse, it shouldnt even be a thing, but genuine question ... If you are complaining to the referee about the level of abuse, thats not defiance, is it simply showing racists that they are winning?  

 

[GG Riva]

23 minutes ago, Vinnie said:

Back on topic, and I wonder why BAME players would want to play in countries like Italy or Russia, where racism is commonplace and attempts to stop it appear half-hearted.   Obviously the money is a major draw, but why allow yourself to be degraded each and every week for a few extra quid? - at the levels of pay these guys are getting, its not like missing out on 5k or 10k a week will set them on the paths to foodbanks.  

Does it send a message of defiance to the racists?  

Of course, you should never be subjected to racist abuse, it shouldnt even be a thing, but genuine question ... If you are complaining to the referee about the level of abuse, thats not defiance, is it simply showing racists that they are winning?  

 

Good question, Vinnie and partly answered by yourself. All top players have agents who are even more money driven than their clients. 

Another point is that nobody ever solved a problem by running away from it. By playing in these countries, they are outing the racists and hopefully forcing the authorities to act out of shame. 

I would also contend that racism is far more widespread than the two countries you name above.

[Vinnie]

I agree that racism is far more widespread than Italy and Russia - I cited these examples as these are financially rich football countries - and it seems its rearing its head in England again.  

I agree too, that you dont solve problems by running away from them.  But then, you arent running away from something if you dont put yourself in the situation first.  Lukaku chose Italy, I dont recall what other options he had but he's already a rich man, he doesnt need the money, and he surely didnt choose Italy because he enjoys being abused?  

 

 

[Keyser Soze]

1 hour ago, GG Riva said:

Jokes by definition, are meant to be funny. The humour in your post went right over my head, I'm afraid. I wasn't offended by it - I knew full well it was an attempt at humour, but it fell well short of funny, in my humble one. Perhaps my Italian roots suggest that I'm not the most impartial person to make such a call. I'd be happy to hear from anyone who did see that as a joke.

 

Jeepers, mate. Try and enjoy Christmas instead of stressing over the fact you missed a joke. 

[Piracy]

8 hours ago, GG Riva said:

A history of fascism? Let's put that into perspective. Italians were subjected to fascism for a period between the two world wars by Mussolini and his followers at a time when 74% of the population were illiterate peasants, whose only goal in life was to produce enough food to survive, after having handed over 2/3 of all their produce to grasping landowners. I should know - I was born into such a family. My parents and grandparents, in common with every other peasant, had no interest or understanding of politics, nor were they interested in being dragged into a war which had nothing to do with them.

Extremism is a better description than fascism. You wouldn't describe Putin as a fascist, but the end result isvthe same. We have dangerous extremists coming into power in many countries all over the world. We even have some in Westminster.

I fear for the less fortunate in our society.

They had a Fascist Dictator and he helped plunge us into the worst war in the history of mankind. That is an indisputable part of Italian history. Of course he was an extremist but he was a fascist. Not up for debate. 

Italy also has football fans openly promoting fascist ideals. Their clubs have tolerated this. Also a fact. 

You don't need to get all defensive because I stated an opinion on Italy. 

The poster with the monkeys, although well intended was a huge own goal. It certainly suggests they may not just have grasped certain civic responsibilities (yet) . 

[GG Riva]

9 hours ago, Keyser Soze said:

 

Jeepers, mate. Try and enjoy Christmas instead of stressing over the fact you missed a joke. 

Now that IS funny. The idea that I might be stressing over a bit of joshing on an internet forum. Maybe I haven't had a humour bypass after all. 😉

[GG Riva]

2 hours ago, Piracy said:

They had a Fascist Dictator and he helped plunge us into the worst war in the history of mankind. That is an indisputable part of Italian history. Of course he was an extremist but he was a fascist. Not up for debate. 

Italy also has football fans openly promoting fascist ideals. Their clubs have tolerated this. Also a fact. 

You don't need to get all defensive because I stated an opinion on Italy. 

The poster with the monkeys, although well intended was a huge own goal. It certainly suggests they may not just have grasped certain civic responsibilities (yet) . 

Firstly, I'm not defending or apologising for fascists or fascism. That should be clear from my previous posts on this thread. Secondly, a point of order. Mussolini did not plunge the world into WW2. In fact, he held back and was courted by Churchill to throw in his lot with the Allies. He waited to see how the war was developing before siding with the Nazis in 1940, at which time Hitler's troops were smashing everything in their path. The vast majority of Italian conscripts were completely opposed to the war and deserted or surrendered at the first opportunity. 

Sadly, there are still openly fascist people around, some of whom are connected to football clubs. I feel a deep sense of shame at the behaviour of these idiots. It can lead to sweeping generalisations and cheap jibes at the expense of those whose only fault is to have been born in the same country.

I've already said my piece about the 3 monkeys poster. Too late, the CEO of Serie A and the artist have realised their monumental gaffe and apologised. How could they run with it before asking member clubs to approve it?

[Vinnie]

17 minutes ago, GG Riva said:

I've already said my piece about the 3 monkeys poster. Too late, the CEO of Serie A and the artist have realised their monumental gaffe and apologised. How could they run with it before asking member clubs to approve it?

Maybe the apology is damage limitation? Perhaps they really were that blind?  An apology goes a good way to protecting them from the ****storm about to splatter on them? 

[scottyboy]

The poster isnae good. Like an advert for Planet Of The Apes. Been much better designing one which ridicules the racist element/supporters as dinasaurs and there is no hiding place for them.