GG Riva Posted June 8, 2020 Report Share Posted June 8, 2020 Many of us will have seen TV footage of the statue of the Bristol merchant and slave trader, Edward Colston, being pulled down and rolled into the waters of the nearby harbour. I had never heard of Colston before yesterday, but I'm not surprised that many local people found his statue's presence offensive and that the local council had received numerous requests for it to be removed. The requests obviously fell on deaf ears, no doubt because Colston left Bristol a considerable proportion of his wealth when he died and which was put to good use by the city, meaning something good came from something evil. There must be similar statues erected to former slavers throughout the UK. I'm fairly certain there's one in Edinburgh whose name escapes me. I wonder if their future will now be reconsidered, in light of yesterday's events. As a citizen of Dunfermline for 60 years, I've had plenty of reasons to be grateful for the considerable philanthropic donations made to the town by Andrew Carnegie. He made his fortune in America and wasn't a slaver, of course, but he's not exactly highly thought of in cities like Philadelphia. Much of his fortune was down to using cheap, African American labour. Technically, they weren't slaves, but they were paid a pittance, meaning they were never going to do much more than struggle to survive. It makes me uncomfortable to think that the image we have of some benefactors, in various towns and cities, is a bit detached from reality. Perhaps the time has come to reassess their contributions and tell it as it is, rather than afford them all legendary status. If, in some cases, that means taking down statues, or changing street names, so be it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teuchter Posted June 8, 2020 Report Share Posted June 8, 2020 A Glasgow counciller has had a good idea regarding street names. Leave them as they are, but erect plaques along side telling the real history. A similar thing in Dunfermline for Carnegie would be a good start too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Superally Posted June 8, 2020 Report Share Posted June 8, 2020 Its a difficult one in some respects I fully agree with the sentiment behind their removal, but where does it stop. We all have the benefit of enlightenment through progression of society that allows us to make judgements on many historical events. However, I don't think we can always fairly judge what has happened in history using todays values, we cant pretend it never happened and we cant always apologise for everything that happens historically. Who knows how well our current values accepted as societies norms are judged by generations yet to come. Teuchter has a valid point that education has a massive role to play and that is what should shape generations to come Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottyboy Posted June 8, 2020 Report Share Posted June 8, 2020 16 hours ago, GG Riva said: Many of us will have seen TV footage of the statue of the Bristol merchant and slave trader, Edward Colston, being pulled down and rolled into the waters of the nearby harbour. I had never heard of Colston before yesterday, but I'm not surprised that many local people found his statue's presence offensive and that the local council had received numerous requests for it to be removed. The requests obviously fell on deaf ears, no doubt because Colston left Bristol a considerable proportion of his wealth when he died and which was put to good use by the city, meaning something good came from something evil. There must be similar statues erected to former slavers throughout the UK. I'm fairly certain there's one in Edinburgh whose name escapes me. I wonder if their future will now be reconsidered, in light of yesterday's events. As a citizen of Dunfermline for 60 years, I've had plenty of reasons to be grateful for the considerable philanthropic donations made to the town by Andrew Carnegie. He made his fortune in America and wasn't a slaver, of course, but he's not exactly highly thought of in cities like Philadelphia. Much of his fortune was down to using cheap, African American labour. Technically, they weren't slaves, but they were paid a pittance, meaning they were never going to do much more than struggle to survive. It makes me uncomfortable to think that the image we have of some benefactors, in various towns and cities, is a bit detached from reality. Perhaps the time has come to reassess their contributions and tell it as it is, rather than afford them all legendary status. If, in some cases, that means taking down statues, or changing street names, so be it. What about Winston The bad PM? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Riva Posted June 10, 2020 Author Report Share Posted June 10, 2020 ''What about Winston The bad PM?'' Churchill was a racist, no doubt about it, but did he amass a huge fortune by trading in human beings? Eta. The Edinburgh slaver was Henry Dundas. His statue is on top of the very tall Melville monument, so there's not much chance of it being pulled down by an angry mob. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Piracy Posted June 11, 2020 Report Share Posted June 11, 2020 Churchill did like the odd concentration camp and didn't mind millions of starving Bengali's. Maybe just a little bit misunderstood... The auld racist **** Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vinnie Posted June 12, 2020 Report Share Posted June 12, 2020 On 08/06/2020 at 10:09, Teuchter said: A Glasgow counciller has had a good idea regarding street names. Leave them as they are, but erect plaques along side telling the real history. We cant rewrite history. I think that is a great idea. I hadnt heard that before so you could have cliamed it as your own idea and Id think you are genius. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1950Par Posted June 12, 2020 Report Share Posted June 12, 2020 G.G. Paying workers a pittance has been going on since time and memorial What is worrying tho is that it is still happening to this day 2020 I wondered about your post thinking it can only encourage unrest and perhaps you have planted a seed in the minds of many Then I heard tonight that King Robert the Bruce's statue is now being targeted ffs we are talking 1300's and the slave trade started 1500's ....Now see what you've done .....:) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vinnie Posted June 12, 2020 Report Share Posted June 12, 2020 5 minutes ago, 1950Par said: Then I heard tonight that King Robert the Bruce's statue is now being targeted ffs we are talking 1300's and the slave trade Folk hiding behind surgical face masks causing trouble reckoning on very little reprisal. Does more to create divides. Would the Bruce have even encountered a Black man? The other thing that crossed my mind about this is that, whilst I respect the protests, news cycles will move on, and if there was a second COVID spike, protesters will cop alot of the blame for failing to follow to Social Distancing guidelines. The cause is right, voices need to be heard, but it needs to be co-ordinated and sustained, at the right time, when it can be the only newsworthy issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Riva Posted June 12, 2020 Author Report Share Posted June 12, 2020 1 hour ago, 1950Par said: G.G. Paying workers a pittance has been going on since time and memorial What is worrying tho is that it is still happening to this day 2020 I wondered about your post thinking it can only encourage unrest and perhaps you have planted a seed in the minds of many Then I heard tonight that King Robert the Bruce's statue is now being targeted ffs we are talking 1300's and the slave trade started 1500's ....Now see what you've done .....:) It certainly wasn't my intention to encourage civil unrest. If I did, I'd be on Facebook or Twitter etc. where I'd reach a far greater number of people. 'Re Bruce's statue, I think the perpetrators of that idiocy are far more likely to be people who want the BLM movement to get the blame for it. I can't imagine why the BLM protestors would target Bruce - it makes no sense whatsoever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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