US Presidential Election

[Andycarp]

Not that I particularly want Trump because I don't care but don't underestimate the vote going his was solely because of his views on immigrants There is a massive movement in America growing against immigrants right now. I may get shot down for saying this but I believe that was also the main reason why the majority in Britain voted to leave the EU. This does not represent my views but it is what I believe is happening or will happen.

[Piracy]

The fact that immigration has become such a contentious issue in the UK is because no political body or figure would acknowledge people's concerns over it.

Under Labour it was completely out of control. They admitted to not knowing how many had come in from abroad under their control.

No subject should be taboo.

 

[Teuchter]

I said Hillary earlier but I think I could be swayed by this song, sung by William Tapley aka Third Eagle of The Apocalypse

He reminds me of that daft Rangers fan from a few years back and his We Don't Do Walking Away song.

 

 

[Andycarp]

Brilliant Teuchter. I know that it is a serious subject but that video made me laugh with his great voice and lyrics.

[Vinnie]

The fact that immigration has become such a contentious issue in the UK is because no political body or figure would acknowledge people's concerns over it.

Under Labour it was completely out of control. They admitted to not knowing how many had come in from abroad under their control.

No subject should be taboo.

 

Immigration is taboo.  It shouldnt be, but to wish to tighten immigration is apparently racist or xenophobic.  

Folk throw the racist allegation around far too easily these days.  Such an allegation towards a politician would be a career breaker. 

[parsforlife]

There are few reasons beyond xenophobia to oppose immigration tho, given it provides us with a strong young tax paying labour force and we have plenty of room to accommodate them.

[Vinnie]

There are few reasons beyond xenophobia to oppose immigration tho, given it provides us with a strong young tax paying labour force and we have plenty of room to accommodate them.

No-one is saying stop immigration.  Folk are saying control it.  There is a massive difference between what has been said, and what folk are twisting it as

[parsforlife]

Wanting to reduce it (usually dramatically) is opposition.

[parsforlife]

Anyway on-topic, Hillary is the obvious choice.  She is an utterly terrible candidate, but may as well be gandhi compared to trump.

[Teuchter]

There are few reasons beyond xenophobia to oppose immigration tho, given it provides us with a strong young tax paying labour force and we have plenty of room to accommodate them.

This is exactly what I meant what I said in a previous post after the referendum that too many people simply imply racism and bigotry when any sort of questions about, or opposition to, immigration are raised.

My own daily life sees me working with colleagues and socialising with friends from all over the globe, and there is no doubt immigration has positively affected my own life. 

it is a long time however since I was out in the world without qualifications looking for work. I have never been in this situation in the North of England, or other areas where immigration is high. Having never been in the shoes of those that live in such circumstances, I think it would be very ignorant of me to lazily imply racism and bigotry towards those who do and that have concerns about, and live daily with, immigration. It is exactly what your sentence above does.

[parsforlife]

If they can give argument beyond the racism based daily mail  bogeyman then I'll happily listin. But there's no doubt far too many people fundamentally dislike forgeiners.

[Captain Deadpool]

People from anywhere should be allowed to live and work anywhere they want.

[Teuchter]

People from anywhere should be allowed to live and work anywhere they want.

This has pretty much been policy of the EU for over a decade. As much as this sounds great in principle, you don't think (or have noticed) that there are any flaws in having a complete freedom of movement between economically disparate areas?

Do you think that such a policy is compatible with universal welfare provision for instance?

[parsforlife]

Should we be deciding how worthy a person is of state support based on where they are from? 

[Teuchter]

Should we be deciding how worthy a person is of state support based on where they are from? 

The argument here is about immigration and limits to immigration. At the moment the country can cope with the supporting those who come to at the moment (leaving aside the arguments about how sustainable this may be on current numbers). My response was specifically to the scenario proposed by @Captain Deadpool where unlimited immigration would be allowed. 

How would you decide to allocate resources should unlimited immigration be allowed? By the way, I am not implying that all immigrants seek state aid as that is clearly not the case. A large and unpredictable increase in the population - as unlimited immigration would in all probability result in - would require an increase in support and in infrastructure. There are practical limits to how much the country can sustain during any given period without something having to give.