Are we all inherently racist?

[GG Riva]

Racism is everywhere, although it varies in intensity in different countries. It has been responsible for genocide, often aggravated by religious differences and even in more enlightened countries, it produces prejudice and intolerance, so that the ethnic minority groups are often socially disadvantaged.

None of us would care to admit we are even remotely racist and yet racism undeniably exists in this country. (I'm reminded of the time when I hadn't long started teaching in the mid 70s. The gents staff toilet was blocked. When the janitor cleared it, he found it was full of fag ends. The Head asked the 40+ male teachers if they smoked. To a man, we all denied it. I reckon at least 80% lied.)

Perhaps the question which would allow us to come to an honest evaluation is "How would you feel if your daughter brought home a black African and announced she was going to marry him?" Not your son and an African woman as that is apparently more acceptable.

Of course, racism doesn't require any differences in skin tone or colour. In Scotland, some of us are openly racist towards the English and/or the Irish. In Italy, many in the north of the country make no secret of their loathing for those who come from the south. They even had a political party called the Northern League, which wanted to split Italy in two, so they wouldn't have the poorer South "sponging" off the North. Now, they're just called the League, so they can garner votes in the South, but they're still a collection of neo fascists.
 

[Piracy]

My daughter did go out with lad with a mixed race background. He was a nice grounded lad but had some difficulties knowing who he was. The irony is, his dad just spoke at the BLM gathering in Glasgow last week. A life long Rangers fan Richard Mcdonald. He got some battering online for speaking out. Racism was probably behind that. 

I honestly do not care about skin colour but I'm bitter about those in privileged positions who don't act responsibly regarding their part in society. The present Tories for instance. So my soul isn't squeaky clean, but skin or race doesn't bother me. 

[Vinnie]

On the current "uprising" I think there are some folk who are using it is an excuse to cause trouble while "legitimately" hiding behind face masks. 

I sometimes feel that in Scotland we have an "inferiority to the English" complex. I sometimes feel that folk here have a distrust/dislike of all things English. They dominate us in sport, they have more public money spent in England such as Crossrail in London and HS2, contracts awarded to English companies rather than Scottish ones, Military bases closed here while English bases remain, Devonport over Rosyth, while we got Faslane.   

I know its not the exactly the same as the current situation, though I see similarities. 

[Piracy]

51 minutes ago, Vinnie said:

On the current "uprising" I think there are some folk who are using it is an excuse to cause trouble while "legitimately" hiding behind face masks. 

I sometimes feel that in Scotland we have an "inferiority to the English" complex. I sometimes feel that folk here have a distrust/dislike of all things English. They dominate us in sport, they have more public money spent in England such as Crossrail in London and HS2, contracts awarded to English companies rather than Scottish ones, Military bases closed here while English bases remain, Devonport over Rosyth, while we got Faslane.   

I know its not the exactly the same as the current situation, though I see similarities. 

Rosyth still very much open. At least it was when I left it yesterday. 

[1950Par]

When they were building  Longannet I became good Pals with Fritz a black man who was was from Bristol and lodged close

to my local pub ..He worked for Foster Wheeler and had a company white van He used to pick me up every Sunday for a wee 

trip to the Dundonald Arms in Culross for a few bevvies and a game of darts Thinking around 1968/69 I cried when he left 

to go home back to Bristol ........Ah the memories 

But back to G.G.'s post Yes I think our generation born late 40's early 50's do/did have a racist tendency borne through lack 

of information, ignorance, and education as to what actually happened and went on ...We did not have the web back then and I was around 5 

before I saw my first black man probably an Indian going round selling rubbish from a suitcase... was I racist then YES ...am I racist now NO 

Would I worry if my daughter brought a black man home NO 

Would I worry if I blocked the toilet and lied to the Jannie  AYE 

[Vinnie]

27 minutes ago, Piracy said:

Rosyth still very much open. At least it was when I left it yesterday. 

There was a time when Devonport was chosen for an MOD contract ahead of Rosyth. If I recall, thats part of the reason Sky was given such a huge grant to set up in Dunfermline.

The Tories are disliked in Scotland. Not that Im a Tory, but no matter what they tell us, its treated with contempt. Sometimes folk dont listen because theyve already decided that they arent interested in what the speaker has to say despite the fact it might be right, simply because they dont like the speaker, or share core values. 

[GG Riva]

3 hours ago, Vinnie said:

I sometimes feel that in Scotland we have an "inferiority to the English" complex. 

When I started teaching, there were quite a lot of English kids in my school. Parents probably worked in the Dockyard. I found them to be keen to answer questions and appeared more articulate than Scottish kids, but when it came to exams, they were all much the same.

Scots have no reason to feel inferior.

[Vinnie]

3 minutes ago, GG Riva said:

When I started teaching, there were quite a lot of English kids in my school. Parents probably worked in the Dockyard. I found them to be keen to answer questions and appeared more articulate than Scottish kids, but when it came to exams, they were all much the same.

Scots have no reason to feel inferior.

I didnt say we should, simply that on occasion there appears to be.  There is sometimes a perceived injustice that fuels Scotlands dislike of England. 

Its similar to this thing of English sports commentators and our dislike of their harping on about winning the World Cup and how it winds us up. The English dont get it. They dont see anything wrong in it. Its an issue for us, they dont consider it an issue. Personally, I think we make a bigger deal of it than is necessary. So whos issue is it?  

And I guess if you relate that back to your initial question? Who makes the issue of it? I like to think I treat everyone the same way, whether they are Italian, English, Black or Asian. 

GG, if I had a discussion with you on a subject, lets say Politics, and I hold an opposing view, Im not disagreeing with you because youre Italian, or because Im better than you, or because I think Im better than you. Thats not a consideration, its nowhere near my thinking. 

Again, I realise such examples are not exactly the same the current situation, but I see elements of similarity.

[GG Riva]

On 12/06/2020 at 21:47, Vinnie said:

I didn't say we should, simply that on occasion there appears to be.  There is sometimes a perceived injustice that fuels Scotland's dislike of England. 

Its similar to this thing of English sports commentators and our dislike of their harping on about winning the World Cup and how it winds us up. The English don't get it. They don't see anything wrong in it. Its an issue for us, they don't consider it an issue. Personally, I think we make a bigger deal of it than is necessary. So whos issue is it?  

And I guess if you relate that back to your initial question? Who makes the issue of it? I like to think I treat everyone the same way, whether they are Italian, English, Black or Asian. 

GG, if I had a discussion with you on a subject, lets say Politics, and I hold an opposing view, I'm not disagreeing with you because you're Italian, or because I'm better than you, or because I think I'm better than you. That's not a consideration, its nowhere near my thinking. 

Again, I realise such examples are not exactly the same the current situation, but I see elements of similarity.

Yes, I agree that there are mitigating factors for Scottish antipathy towards the English and that it's probably not racism in its truest sense - but what about the Irish? Is that all down to religion? Let's be honest, at least 90% of the population don't give a stuff about religion, so why should it matter what religious group anyone else was born into?

When I posed the original question, I wasn't looking for individuals to put their hands up and admit to being racist or having racist thoughts. There is an argument that no child is born racist - it is learned from others. There's also a counter argument that we feel more comfortable among our own kind and that we instinctively view any humans who are ''different'' in some way with caution. Perhaps this evolved over millions of years as groups of animals, including humans, fought and killed one another over territory to protect their food sources? It still goes on today, of course, even though human survival doesn't depend on it. 

I don't know the answer to my own question myself, but I do know that many of us are intelligent enough not to hold prejudicial views  of people from other parts of the world without even knowing them. When you do get to know someone, you realise that the colour of their skin is even less relevant as to whether they have a full head of hair or not. I like the way Pep Guardiola put it yesterday:-

''"White people should say sorry for the way we have treated black people for 400 years. I am ashamed of what we have done to black people around the world.''

Maybe he should have said people of any other ethnic group, since they have all been badly treated at some time in history, but black Africans are still being discriminated against today, whereas some other races have been practically wiped off the map. 

[Vinnie]

1 hour ago, GG Riva said:

I like the way Pep Guardiola put it yesterday:-

''"White people should say sorry for the way we have treated black people for 400 years. I am ashamed of what we have done to black people around the world.''

Im not sure I want to apologise for the actions of our forefathers.  Its history, I know it was wrong, an apology doesnt change it.  I can be aware of history, acknowledge it, and we can use it to recognise where society needs to be better and fairer. 

1 hour ago, GG Riva said:

Yes, I agree that there are mitigating factors for Scottish antipathy towards the English and that it's probably not racism in its truest sense

How would you define racism as in truest sense?

[GG Riva]

5 hours ago, Vinnie said:

Im not sure I want to apologise for the actions of our forefathers.  Its history, I know it was wrong, an apology doesnt change it.  I can be aware of history, acknowledge it, and we can use it to recognise where society needs to be better and fairer. 

How would you define racism as in truest sense?

Apologising for the actions of our forefathers, doesn't mean we accept the blame, but rather an acknowledgement that what they did was so horribly evil and wrong.

Racism in its truest sense, is an irrational  feeling of loathing towards persons you do not know and have never met, purely because their physical appearance is different to your own. At least, that's the way I see it.

[Fifes Elite]

I don't agree with apologising for something someone else did. Related or not.

Tbh racism doesnt seem to have entered my life in any way.....I mean the only people that care about it are idiots. I do think there are prejudices around though that's fairly obvious and that is leveled at all races. The biggest prejudices I have seen in this country is against working class and Catholics(I consider myself the first and not the latter). Fife is predominantly the same race and even my stint in Edinburgh I didnt see much racism and gorgie road where I lived for the last 3 yeare before coming back to the toon is a mix of all sorts of races.

[Vinnie]

3 hours ago, GG Riva said:

Racism in its truest sense, is an irrational  feeling of loathing towards persons you do not know and have never met, purely because their physical appearance is different to your own. At least, that's the way I see it.

So you base race on skin tone?  Therefore, racism between English and Scottish cannot exist?  Or between the British and French or Germans? 

[Vinnie]

2 hours ago, Fifes Elite said:

racism doesnt seem to have entered my life in any way....

Because you treat folk the same way regardless of who they are? And if they treat you right, youll do the same return?  Which is how it should be.  

[GG Riva]

12 minutes ago, Vinnie said:

So you base race on skin tone?  Therefore, racism between English and Scottish cannot exist?  Or between the British and French or Germans? 

Are you trying to catch me out, Vinnie? Of course racism can include forms other than skin colour. I was trying to keep it simple and gave the most prevalent - skin colour - as an example. It is possible to be racist towards people of different nationalities, which is sometimes exacerbated if they also practise a different religion.

So, I'll revise my earlier definition. Racism is the manifestation of hatred towards other human beings, based on prejudices formed based on hearsay,  rather than first hand experience.