All These Sex Scandals

[Vinnie]

A few sex scandals over the past few days or so - Weinstein, Hoffman, Spacey, Fallon - and I'm kinda surprised its not been mentioned on here, especially Fallon and an opportunity to slag the Tories.

That said, Fallon seems to be victim of this latest news cycle.  I say "victim", in that it seems that no offence has been caused, yet the guy has felt the need to leave his job because everybody else is offended on behalf of a reporter he supposedly groped - his "victim" doesn't feel that she was assaulted.

Weinstein looks like a pitbull.  I can quite imagine he did use his casting couch and the suggestion of offering prominent roles to young actresses.  

Ive recently been watching the first few series of House of Cards.  Ok, the role dictated Spacey being a little sleezy - perhaps in hindsight, there wasn't much acting involved.  I wont watch the rest now.

Seems to me that we face a scenario men and women wont be able to speak to each other without everyone watching what they say. 

 

[SanguinePar]

The rumour is that Fallon went after Andrea Leadsom complained to Theresa May about an incident in 2012. 

The fact that he went so apparently willingly and quickly, and his quote that "The culture has changed over the years, what might have been acceptable 15, 10 years ago is clearly not acceptable now." is pretty suggestive.

Seems to me that we face a scenario men and women wont be able to speak to each other without everyone watching what they say. 

Good - it's still far, far, far too common to hear people (mostly men) talking about other people (mostly women) as if they were nothing more than sex objects whose only function is to please the speaker. 

The more this sort of stuff is exposed and condemned, the better, and hopefully the message will get through to more people that it's just not ok to do that. And that it never was (Fallon's "what might have been acceptable" is a pretty pathetic bit of self-justification).

It's just a shame that the pussy-grabber-in-chief somehow seems immune to all this. 

[Vinnie]

 

Seems to me that we face a scenario men and women wont be able to speak to each other without everyone watching what they say. 

Good - it's still far, far, far too common to hear people (mostly men) talking about other people (mostly women) as if they were nothing more than sex objects whose only function is to please the speaker. 

It seems to me that what youre referring to here is discussions in male only audiences, and as far as I know, its equally the case that women have these discussions in women only groups too, youre just not party to them.

I agree that the excuse of "it was alright back then" is a weak one though. 

[scottyboy]

Am I allowed to say on here that Prince Andrew keeps dodgy company? 

[worldwiderab]

Scottyboy, I would tend to agree with you except that Prince Andrew is more dodgy than most of the dodgy company that he keeps.

[Teuchter]

Of course genuine abuse and harassment should be called out, and punished, and by doing so, hopefully prevented.

The worrying thing however is that in the deluge of allegations, an inappropriate remark or a unwanted pat on the bum seems to be given the same weight as rape and assault. 

It is subjective as to what is an inappropriate remark. A flirtatious remark to one woman is an inappropriate comment to another. It is almost giving the likes of Weinstein a get out by going down the all men are potential rapists route. 

As for the guy claiming PTSD after being grabbed by the balls - gtf! That is just pathetic.

[Teuchter]

 

 

[Vinnie]

The worrying thing however is that in the deluge of allegations, an inappropriate remark or a unwanted pat on the bum seems to be given the same weight as rape and assault. 

It is subjective as to what is an inappropriate remark. A flirtatious remark to one woman is an inappropriate comment to another. It is almost giving the likes of Weinstein a get out by going down the all men are potential rapists route. 

I think your first line here is absolutely spot on.  There isn't any scale of wrongdoing here, it seems youre either a sex offender or not. 

What is offensive has always been completely subjective.  Its almost as if a "Hello, can I buy you a drink?" in a bar can be a sexual offensive, if the subject doesn't like your haircut or shoes.  

[Vinnie]

Seems these allegations have forced one MP into taking his own life...

[SanguinePar]

 

Seems to me that we face a scenario men and women wont be able to speak to each other without everyone watching what they say. 

Good - it's still far, far, far too common to hear people (mostly men) talking about other people (mostly women) as if they were nothing more than sex objects whose only function is to please the speaker. 

It seems to me that what youre referring to here is discussions in male only audiences, and as far as I know, its equally the case that women have these discussions in women only groups too, youre just not party to them.

Probably true. Doesn't change anything though. This **** has to stop.

[SanguinePar]

Of course genuine abuse and harassment should be called out, and punished, and by doing so, hopefully prevented.

The worrying thing however is that in the deluge of allegations, an inappropriate remark or a unwanted pat on the bum seems to be given the same weight as rape and assault. 

No they aren't, come on... (That said, an "unwanted pat on the bum" is, legally, an assault).

Less serious though they are however, those actions are still entirely unacceptable, particularly in the workplace or where one party holds a position of power over the other.

[Vinnie]

 

Seems to me that we face a scenario men and women wont be able to speak to each other without everyone watching what they say. 

Good - it's still far, far, far too common to hear people (mostly men) talking about other people (mostly women) as if they were nothing more than sex objects whose only function is to please the speaker. 

It seems to me that what youre referring to here is discussions in male only audiences, and as far as I know, its equally the case that women have these discussions in women only groups too, youre just not party to them.

Probably true. Doesn't change anything though. This **** has to stop.

There is a difference between what I think is acceptable to a group of male friends, and what I think is acceptable in the workplace, and what I think is acceptable in mixed company.

What is acceptable in these groups is entirely subjective to each audience, and how I behave and what I say is altered accordingly.

I imagine if I knew you socially @SanguinePar, and therefore knew what you find acceptable, I would tailor my behaviours slightly to suit your company.

 

I also have issue to your response to @Teuchter. Unwanted physical contact is very very different to a few inapropriate words. They cant be weighted equally in seriousness.

As the point has been made already, a word can have multiple meanings or be entirely subjective and may well simply be a misunderstanding, a grope of a boob or a bum involves a series of deliberate thoughts and actions by the groper. 

[SanguinePar]

 

Seems to me that we face a scenario men and women wont be able to speak to each other without everyone watching what they say. 

Good - it's still far, far, far too common to hear people (mostly men) talking about other people (mostly women) as if they were nothing more than sex objects whose only function is to please the speaker. 

It seems to me that what youre referring to here is discussions in male only audiences, and as far as I know, its equally the case that women have these discussions in women only groups too, youre just not party to them.

Probably true. Doesn't change anything though. This **** has to stop.

There is a difference between what I think is acceptable to a group of male friends, and what I think is acceptable in the workplace, and what I think is acceptable in mixed company.

What is acceptable in these groups is entirely subjective to each audience, and how I behave and what I say is altered accordingly.

I imagine if I knew you socially @SanguinePar, and therefore knew what you find acceptable, I would tailor my behaviours slightly to suit your company.

 

I also have issue to your response to @Teuchter. Unwanted physical contact is very very different to a few inapropriate words. They cant be weighted equally in seriousness.

As the point has been made already, a word can have multiple meanings or be entirely subjective and may well simply be a misunderstanding, a grope of a boob or a bum involves a series of deliberate thoughts and actions by the groper. 

We can agree on this at least - a grope (or pat on the bum) is not acceptable.

However words matter too, and can be very damaging. What I was taking issue with, was Teuchter claiming they are "being given the same weight as a rape or an assault", which clearly is not true.

However, just because they're not AS serious doesn't mean they're not serious at all.

As for tailoring behaviour, obviously everyone does that to a certain extent, but tbh if it meant (for example) hiding misogyny, then I would rather just hear the truth and know to avoid that person.

[Vinnie]

 

Seems to me that we face a scenario men and women wont be able to speak to each other without everyone watching what they say. 

Good - it's still far, far, far too common to hear people (mostly men) talking about other people (mostly women) as if they were nothing more than sex objects whose only function is to please the speaker. 

It seems to me that what youre referring to here is discussions in male only audiences, and as far as I know, its equally the case that women have these discussions in women only groups too, youre just not party to them.

Probably true. Doesn't change anything though. This **** has to stop.

There is a difference between what I think is acceptable to a group of male friends, and what I think is acceptable in the workplace, and what I think is acceptable in mixed company.

What is acceptable in these groups is entirely subjective to each audience, and how I behave and what I say is altered accordingly.

I imagine if I knew you socially @SanguinePar, and therefore knew what you find acceptable, I would tailor my behaviours slightly to suit your company.

 

I also have issue to your response to @Teuchter. Unwanted physical contact is very very different to a few inapropriate words. They cant be weighted equally in seriousness.

As the point has been made already, a word can have multiple meanings or be entirely subjective and may well simply be a misunderstanding, a grope of a boob or a bum involves a series of deliberate thoughts and actions by the groper. 

We can agree on this at least - a grope (or pat on the bum) is not acceptable.

However words matter too, and can be very damaging. What I was taking issue with, was Teuchter claiming they are "being given the same weight as a rape or an assault", which clearly is not true.

However, just because they're not AS serious doesn't mean they're not serious at all.

Nobody is particularly suggesting words cant be hurtful or damaging, but they can be subjective.  Its also fair to say that what might be a trivial comment one day, may not be so trivial another time.  (Lets be clear, I'm not saying this is a trivial matter, I'm saying that the understanding of words is subjective, and that can vary from person to person, or to the same person on a day to day basis). 

I also understood your comments to suggest that a sexual innuendo as being as serious as sexual assault - how can a physical act or subjective act have the same penalty?  Certainly, the press are having a field day with this and scandalising everything for a few extra sales or clicks.

[SanguinePar]

 

Seems to me that we face a scenario men and women wont be able to speak to each other without everyone watching what they say. 

Good - it's still far, far, far too common to hear people (mostly men) talking about other people (mostly women) as if they were nothing more than sex objects whose only function is to please the speaker. 

It seems to me that what youre referring to here is discussions in male only audiences, and as far as I know, its equally the case that women have these discussions in women only groups too, youre just not party to them.

Probably true. Doesn't change anything though. This **** has to stop.

There is a difference between what I think is acceptable to a group of male friends, and what I think is acceptable in the workplace, and what I think is acceptable in mixed company.

What is acceptable in these groups is entirely subjective to each audience, and how I behave and what I say is altered accordingly.

I imagine if I knew you socially @SanguinePar, and therefore knew what you find acceptable, I would tailor my behaviours slightly to suit your company.

 

I also have issue to your response to @Teuchter. Unwanted physical contact is very very different to a few inapropriate words. They cant be weighted equally in seriousness.

As the point has been made already, a word can have multiple meanings or be entirely subjective and may well simply be a misunderstanding, a grope of a boob or a bum involves a series of deliberate thoughts and actions by the groper. 

We can agree on this at least - a grope (or pat on the bum) is not acceptable.

However words matter too, and can be very damaging. What I was taking issue with, was Teuchter claiming they are "being given the same weight as a rape or an assault", which clearly is not true.

However, just because they're not AS serious doesn't mean they're not serious at all.

Nobody is particularly suggesting words cant be hurtful or damaging, but they can be subjective.  Its also fair to say that what might be a trivial comment one day, may not be so trivial another time.  (Lets be clear, I'm not saying this is a trivial matter, I'm saying that the understanding of words is subjective, and that can vary from person to person, or to the same person on a day to day basis). 

I also understood your comments to suggest that a sexual innuendo as being as serious as sexual assault - how can a physical act or subjective act have the same penalty?  Certainly, the press are having a field day with this and scandalising everything for a few extra sales or clicks.

Definitely not what I was saying.