Brexit

[Vinnie]

1 hour ago, Teuchter said:

Nobody knows what is going to happen- least of all the twats who spent 20 odd years stoking up an economy with credit and were then genuinely surprised when it went tits-up.

This is my thought.  Its unprecedented.  It could be the the biggest mistake in the history of man-kind, or it could reap rewards and prosperity of industrial revolution proportions.  (Yes, thats a bigger over egging than Carney's, but then it might not be). 

Whats becoming clearer to me is that the "Leavers" have different ideas of what Brexit is, and how its should work.  I always thought that it suits both the UK and Europe to have a trade agreement in place, whereas some hardline Brexiteers want to tear up all the trade agreements - that just seems like cutting off your nose to spite your face, and the EU would be the same without a that part of the deal - therefore Farage and Johnson and their ilks view of Brexit is different from mine (if that makes sense). 

[Teuchter]

17 hours ago, Vinnie said:

Whats becoming clearer to me is that the "Leavers" have different ideas of what Brexit is, and how its should work.  I always thought that it suits both the UK and Europe to have a trade agreement in place, whereas some hardline Brexiteers want to tear up all the trade agreements - that just seems like cutting off your nose to spite your face, and the EU would be the same without a that part of the deal - therefore Farage and Johnson and their ilks view of Brexit is different from mine (if that makes sense). 

There were only ever two options on the ballot - Leave / Remain and not Remain / Soft Brexit / Hard Brexit / Compromise. 

I remember just after the vote watching an episode of Question Time from Hartlepool. All these monkey hangers in the audience were saying “we voted to leave, why aren’t the government getting on with it and just leaving”.

On the panel was Yanis Varoufakis, who sat throughout most of the show laughing and shaking his head. He posed the simple question “what Brexit did you vote for” The response came “We just want to leave”.

There are a lot of articles going on about the “betrayal” of the 17.4 million. As you have pointed out, 17.4 million did not vote for a no deal. It is more complex than that.

I recall Johnston during the campaign using the phrase “cake and eat it” and pretty much pointing to a Norway model. How none of these ****ers are getting taken to task is beyond me. If it does go tits up, the guffy ****s south of the border are more likely to round on immigrants than the ****holes who caused the mess.

[Guest The Beer Baron]

Poorly, thinly veiled racism was what the no vote aimed at and that's what won it. All these petty, I'll informed idiots who think that "getting rid of the Muslims" will somehow turn Britain into the world's dominant land again.

[Vinnie]

1 hour ago, The Beer Baron said:

Poorly, thinly veiled racism was what the no vote aimed at and that's what won it. All these petty, I'll informed idiots who think that "getting rid of the Muslims" will somehow turn Britain into the world's dominant land again.

I disagree that supporting Brexit makes you racist.  Australia controls immigration - does their lack of free movement make all Australians racist?  Anyway, there are other issues than immigration.

I know that in the North East of England, heavy industry has moved out of the area, losing jobs, because of EU incentives to re-locate to Slovenia, or Slovakia, or these old Eastern Bloc countries - I'd say losing your job and feeling that the EU has shafted you, is reason to vote Leave?  I dont think the North East has really replaced those jobs.  

[Guest The Beer Baron]

2 hours ago, Vinnie said:

I disagree that supporting Brexit makes you racist

That's not what I said

[Vinnie]

39 minutes ago, The Beer Baron said:

That's not what I said

Thats as I understood it, as inadvertent as it may have been.  

[Teuchter]

 

[SanguinePar]

On 30/11/2018 at 06:58, Teuchter said:

There were only ever two options on the ballot - Leave / Remain and not Remain / Soft Brexit / Hard Brexit / Compromise. 

I remember just after the vote watching an episode of Question Time from Hartlepool. All these monkey hangers in the audience were saying “we voted to leave, why aren’t the government getting on with it and just leaving”.

On the panel was Yanis Varoufakis, who sat throughout most of the show laughing and shaking his head. He posed the simple question “what Brexit did you vote for” The response came “We just want to leave”.

There are a lot of articles going on about the “betrayal” of the 17.4 million. As you have pointed out, 17.4 million did not vote for a no deal. It is more complex than that.

I recall Johnston during the campaign using the phrase “cake and eat it” and pretty much pointing to a Norway model. How none of these ****ers are getting taken to task is beyond me. If it does go tits up, the guffy ****s south of the border are more likely to round on immigrants than the ****holes who caused the mess.

Absolutely spot on.

It's been blindingly obvious from Day 1 that there is no way the EU was going to give the UK what it wants in terms of trade without the UK also adhering to EU rules. I mean, why would they ever adopt any other position?

Brexit was fought on a series of brazen lies, and vague promises of unspecified future glory. Cake, as you say.

Nobody, not a single person the UK voted for the deal May has scraped together, because it didn't exist and nobody in their right mind would ever want it to happen. Putting it up against No Deal is a false choice, the deal should be accepted or rejected on its own merits. 

The only viable way out of this is a proper, binding vote, this time with people actually knowing what they're voting for.

"Brexit means Brexit" - well played May, well played. You f***ing idiot.

[SanguinePar]

Boom! Yet another bad day for May, as she loses three important votes in the Commons.

First, she attempts to escape her own government being found in contempt of parliament by kicking it to the committee long grass, and loses.

Next parliament votes on the contempt issue itself and finds that the government WAS in contempt of parliament when it simply ignored the HoC vote ordering full publication of legal advice.

And now, parliament has passed Dominic Grieve's amendment that will ensure MPs can vote in favour of a “plan B” option in January if Theresa May’s deal gets voted down next week.

Strong and Stable!

[Guest The Beer Baron]

All this was totally worth being better together

[Vinnie]

Fabulous.  We all get to fall out with and hate each other again as our illustrious leaders ramp up their lies and half truths again.

Does this mean, at the next general election, if we dont like the result we can object and have a second vote? Or does this mean that we have a series of Brexit votes until we settle it by rock paper scissors?

[Guest The Beer Baron]

2 hours ago, Vinnie said:

Does this mean, at the next general election, if we dont like the result we can object and have a second vote?

Please!

[Vinnie]

Alternatively, lets just disband all government, reject any kind of political voting, because the results shouldnt matter if we dont like them.  

All that is happening now is that we are infighting each other.  Politics is divisive as it is, without the option of debating every result.  As much as anyone might disagree with the results of votes, surely we understand that some we win, some we lose - or do we only accept that when we get our own way? 

[Teuchter]

Referendums only work on divisive matters when they are effectively ratifying consensus opinion built up over years ( Scottish devolution - unequivocal result). 

When it is used as a vehicle of registering discontent by ill educated shaved chimps in the north of England, and Little Englanders in the south, that is when you have problem.

Parliamentery democracy, while not perfect is preferable to rule by the cretinous masses.

When Thatcher happily quotes Attlee on a subject (referendums) then it does suggest that there is a flaw with them. As we can now see.

[Vinnie]

1 hour ago, Teuchter said:

When Thatcher happily quotes Attlee on a subject (referendums) then it does suggest that there is a flaw with them. As we can now see.

Im not convinced the referendums themselves were flawed, so I do feel we will have different ideas about what flaw there may or may not be?