Superally Posted October 9, 2019 Report Share Posted October 9, 2019 I'm firmly in the remain camp, I honestly don't think people were fully informed of the issues in an utterly dreadful campaign from both sides - especially leave, but people know better now. Some people may not change their views and equally I haven't. There has been nothing that has remotely convinced me that we would be better off going through a Brexit either deal or no deal. Johnston, Gove, Fox and their rightwing cartel all told us there would be people knocking at the doors with trade deals yet we have to see any. Running cap in hand to America as the saviour hardly inspires me. And this cartel just cant wait to sell out our NHS. So I remain firmly in the remain camp and it gives me every reason to support a move to a devolved UK and a independent Scotland Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vinnie Posted October 9, 2019 Report Share Posted October 9, 2019 44 minutes ago, Superally said: I honestly don't think people were fully informed of the issues in an utterly dreadful campaign from both sides Probably because there is no modern day precedence of a country leaving a union. There is no basis to gauge how it pan out, the best our politicians can do is set out a range of scenarios that they hope to achieve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Riva Posted October 11, 2019 Author Report Share Posted October 11, 2019 Perhaps this article supplies the answers to some of the questions I posed in the OP....... https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/brexit-myths-busting-polling-second-referendum-leave-remain-a9149491.html then again, maybe not. We know how badly the polls predicted the outcome of the 2016 Referendum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vinnie Posted October 11, 2019 Report Share Posted October 11, 2019 Polls and their data can be manipulated to fit an agenda. If Im a Brexiteer I target my polling at villages and smaller towns where the population may be aging? Or I target industrial towns where factories are closing because grants have been provided to move to other EU sites. If Im a Remainer, I target Scotland, or cosmopolitan cities, or perhaps the south coast ferry ports, where free trade has increased job security? As an aside, the odds of a Deal are improving. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vinnie Posted October 17, 2019 Report Share Posted October 17, 2019 Deal agreed. To be put to a vote in Parliament. DUP in a huff and will vote against it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teuchter Posted October 17, 2019 Report Share Posted October 17, 2019 It is not the DUP that is huffing. http://www.irishnews.com/news/northernirelandnews/2019/10/16/news/dup-defends-arlene-foster-s-astonishing-meetings-with-senior-loyalists-1739844/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vinnie Posted October 17, 2019 Report Share Posted October 17, 2019 Is the Irish News a republican paper? I just wonder where their agendas lie? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Riva Posted October 17, 2019 Author Report Share Posted October 17, 2019 14 minutes ago, Vinnie said: Is the Irish News a republican paper? I just wonder where their agendas lie? Well of course, the Irish News will have its own particular stance on things, but if it's true that Foster met up with members of the UDA and UVF, that's shocking and bizarre. It's no different to engaging with the IRA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vinnie Posted October 17, 2019 Report Share Posted October 17, 2019 1 hour ago, GG Riva said: Well of course, the Irish News will have its own particular stance on things, but if it's true that Foster met up with members of the UDA and UVF, that's shocking and bizarre. It's no different to engaging with the IRA. I agree, but lets face it, "journalists" (and I use the term loosely) on either side of any topic, do not always report accurately. I simply wonder whether Foster met the UDA, or another organisation but the person involved has links to the UDA. In the same vein, Gerry Adams and Sinn Fein were IRA. Its easy to mislead that point, and it makes for a better story Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teuchter Posted October 17, 2019 Report Share Posted October 17, 2019 4 hours ago, Vinnie said: I agree, but lets face it, "journalists" (and I use the term loosely) on either side of any topic, do not always report accurately. I simply wonder whether Foster met the UDA, or another organisation but the person involved has links to the UDA. In the same vein, Gerry Adams and Sinn Fein were IRA. Its easy to mislead that point, and it makes for a better story That is a fair enough point - there definately is a spin on the story (according to Wikipedia, the paper has an Irish Nationalist slant, but includes Unionist comment too). I could only find reports online originating in Ulster. You would hope that a journalist, worthy of the title, is following this up, as it would be astonishing that a party formally linked to the UK govt seeks counsel from paramilitary organisations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vinnie Posted October 17, 2019 Report Share Posted October 17, 2019 1 hour ago, Teuchter said: it would be astonishing that a party formally linked to the UK govt seeks counsel from paramilitary organisations. I find it very hard to believe that Sinn Fein (who are formally linked to Westminster though they dontbtaie their seat) have no link to the IRA. Of course, officially theyll deny it til theyre blue in the face, but given that Adams and his cronies were responsible for a number of atrocities, it doesnt wash with me. Back on topic, there is now a "deal", and the only issue holding everything up was Mays Irish backstop. If our politicians are true to their word (I doubt they will be), and the backstop truly was their only issue, we should see Brexit agreed by the end of the weekend, even if the DUP are dropping their support, and to be fair, there was never that many DUP MPs anyway? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest The Beer Baron Posted October 18, 2019 Report Share Posted October 18, 2019 So Northern Ireland effectively stays in whilst we're taken out? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Piracy Posted October 18, 2019 Report Share Posted October 18, 2019 F*ck in chaos as Brexit will happen. Then more chaos as Indyref2 happens. Scottish and English Nationalists win the day. Happy divisive society folks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teuchter Posted October 18, 2019 Report Share Posted October 18, 2019 9 hours ago, Vinnie said: I find it very hard to believe that Sinn Fein (who are formally linked to Westminster though they dontbtaie their seat) have no link to the IRA. Of course, officially theyll deny it til theyre blue in the face, but given that Adams and his cronies were responsible for a number of atrocities, it doesnt wash with me. Textbook whataboutary. I don’t see any Sinn Fien presence in and around the UK government at the moment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vinnie Posted October 18, 2019 Report Share Posted October 18, 2019 4 minutes ago, Teuchter said: Textbook whataboutary. I don’t see any Sinn Fien presence in and around the UK government at the moment. Sinn Fein have Westminster MP's, though they dont take their seat at Westminster. So they do have a presence in the UK Government (Westminster) - not really whataboutary? The point remains, that this Dli O'Doir character may not necessarily be representing the facts properly. Just as I could potentially twist the facts about IRA links to Parliament? Again, we are slightly drifting off topic now. 1 hour ago, Piracy said: F*ck in chaos as Brexit will happen. Then more chaos as Indyref2 happens. Scottish and English Nationalists win the day. Happy divisive society folks. I actually like the way Sturgeon goes about her business, I hope there have been lessons learnt about how any campaigning is conducted after the last two referendum campaigns. Folk condemn Johnson, Farage, and Trump, but Sturgeon's drumming up a similar sort of nationalist support. Can someone explain whats different about Sturgeon? (Genuinely) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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