Support the troops

[parsforlife]

http://dafc.co.uk/story.php?t=DAFC_Sign_Armed_Forces_Covenant&ID=10295

Is this really necessary?

[Captain Deadpool]

No. A load of ****e

[Vinnie]

Not necessary, but I don't see it as a bad thing.   

[Salvo Montalbano]

We should be doing most of those things for everyone, not just members of the forces. Already dreading the spectre of an Armed Forces Day tbh. 

[scottyboy]

I don't really see it as a bad thing. I respect the forces as they have a hard job to do. Keeps the clubs profile up. Maybe other initiatives with more groups will follow. 

[Piracy]

There's a direct link to McRae's Battalion in Dunfermline. Club representatives paid tribute by travelling over to France a few years back.

The Roy Barry Fan Club and Stanza could maybe expand on that if they so wish.

For me it lifts the clubs profile as it is linking us directly with the community (to an extent) so surely that is the right thing to do given our status as a community club.

That said on the wider front I think football clubs are making too big a thing of the whole Armed Forces respect  bandwagon, which makes me think it's like, lets show who cares the most.

Thus inadvertently devaluing the whole thing.

 

[SanguinePar]

That said on the wider front I think football clubs are making too big a thing of the whole Armed Forces respect  bandwagon, which makes me think it's like, lets show who cares the most.

Thus inadvertently devaluing the whole thing.

 

Spot on, and it's not just football clubs - the whole poppy thing is in danger of becoming something of a cult.

[Fifes Elite]

I think there is a fear that people will forget. There's been various comments in the last few years from some quarters that maybe we should stop the whole remembrance stuff and start now to leave it in the past. I think that has however made people more determined that it's never forgotton especially the main message about the horrors of war and the human costs it brings. I have attended a few remembrance events and there's been speeches with that sort of message being made.

 

It's also a bit more prevalent in the past couple of years as we are in the middle of the centenary of WW1 which was a horrific war which still impacts on culture to an extent today if you listen to some social commentators.

I like to remember in my own way and like hearing about individuals stories of normal people involved more than anything. I'm not overly fussed about the pomp that goes into it but everyone's different.

[The Roy Barry Fan Club]

In terms of the Armed Forces Covenant, this is just part of the overall strategy of engaging with the local community in a wide variety of ways. You can see that from the Business Plan which is available on the Club's Official website.

We have a particularly strong commitment at the moment to the injured and recovering soldiers in the Army Personnel Recovery Centre, where the Officer Commanding is a Pars season ticket holder and member of the Kincardine Supporters' Club. I am personally committed to this, and frankly I think it's the decent thing to do. 

If this is not your 'bag' then that's fine; hopefully some of the other things which we are doing in the West Fife community via the Pars Foundation, the Schools Engagement Programme, the Heritage Trust, the Disabled Supporters' Group and the deployment of Memory Boxes to help fight memory loss might be. 

In terms of the Poppy thing, then again, I think this must be a personal choice. To some extent it might be an age thing, and frankly it is not a big thing for my son, but for me who had a grandfather live with him when I was a boy who was physically and mentally wounded in the slaughter of WWI, it is. However my Grandad (Somme, Arras, Paschendaele, Ypres) and Dad (El Alamein, Salerno, Gothic Line) would say , and did say, that they fought the war to allow people the choice. Wear a poppy -- don't wear a poppy: it's a personal thing.  There is no right or wrong position. It is however a fact that the First World War had a devastating effect on many Dunfermline families, and with close to a thousand names on West Fife war memorials, then the evidence is stark. What I think is unfortunate is the nonsense of the Poppy being worn for weeks before Remembrance Sunday on TV, and sprayed around the media in some bizarre contexts. I'm sure that I saw Poppy badges on the dance costumes in 'Strictly' tonight. 

The McCrae aspect is interesting and says something about the recent history of the Club. I know Jack Alexander, the author of the book on McCrae's very well. He wrote in 2003/4 several times to then then Chairman without response. The daughter of McCrae's adjutant happened to come from Dunfermline. She wrote. Again there was no courtesy of a response. The book and the Cairn at Contalmaison were therefore  completed without the participation of DAFC. The battalion actually contained close to a hundred Dunfermline men, and two members of DAFC not only served with McCrae's but were killed beside each other on 1 July 1916 on the Somme. Stanza and I have researched the many local men killed and wounded in McCrae's from the pages of the Dunfermline Press. It is heartrending. I hope to publish something on this in the future giving the names and addresses and something of the lives of those men. More particularly in 2013 when we collectively rescued the Club, one of the things that I was determined to do was to put right the wrong done to the memory of my grandfather's friends. We ensured that DAFC like Falkirk, Raith Rovers and Hearts were Life Members of McCrae's Battalion Trust, that a DAFC wreath is laid on the Somme on 1 July each year, and that there is DAFC representation at the annual McCrae's Remembrance Day Lunch. None of this costs the Club a penny.  

 

 

[Vinnie]

In terms of the Armed Forces Covenant, this is just part of the overall strategy of engaging with the local community in a wide variety of ways. You can see that from the Business Plan which is available on the Club's Official website.

We have a particularly strong commitment at the moment to the injured and recovering soldiers in the Army Personnel Recovery Centre, where the Officer Commanding is a Pars season ticket holder and member of the Kincardine Supporters' Club. I am personally committed to this, and frankly I think it's the decent thing to do. 

In terms of the Poppy thing, then again, I think this must be a personal choice. To some extent it might be an age thing, and frankly it is not a big thing for my son, but for me who had a grandfather live with him when I was a boy who was physically and mentally wounded in the slaughter of WWI, it is. However my Grandad (Somme, Arras, Paschendaele, Ypres) and Dad (El Alamein, Salerno, Gothic Line) would say , and did say, that they fought the war to allow people the choice. Wear a poppy -- don't wear a poppy: it's a personal thing.  There is no right or wrong position.

I think the potential of any negative for not joining such a scheme far outweighs the positives. If it costs the club nothing but time commitment, great. I imagine there would be a monetary cost to defending any negative media for not being involved.

Mr Roy Barry is spot on. Wearing a poppy is a very personal choice. Funnily enough, I rarely see poppy wearers complain about non-wearers, but non-wearers do bump their gums about "cults" or questioning the necessity.

I dont buy a poppy, my family is steeped in army service, and I dont wear a poppy because I dont need a set date to remember the past. Luckily, we have that choice.

I do understand that the marketing behind ALL charities these days is intense. The number of charities seems to be growing massively yearly on year. Its not just the Poppy Appeal for the month or so they are active. Perhaps those who advocate for other charitable schemes should button their lips too? 

[Teuchter]

 

"Mr Roy Barry is spot on. Wearing a poppy is a very personal choice. Funnily enough, I rarely see poppy wearers complain about non-wearers, but non-wearers do bump their gums about "cults" or questioning the necessity"

 

Really?

Out of many instances, the backlash against the personal choice of James McLean suggests otherwise. It was yourself, on here, that said something along the lines that he was showing disrespect for the country where he earns his living (which of course, happens to be his country of birth). Was that respecting his personal choice and respecting the right of a non-wearer?

 

The term "virtue signalling" is a favourite insult in the armoury of the right, but unfortunately that is what is increasingly happening each year around rememberence Sunday. Those leaning to the UKIP right and beyond are just as busy, if not busier than the non-wearers bumping their gums about who isn't wearing poppies, or the choice of colour that they wear (the UKIP general secretary is a fervent believer in both free speech and banning white poppies for example). The ultimate right troll Katie Hopkins actually named her daughter Poppy - surely the ultimate in virtue signalling?

it is not just non - wearers who have concerns about aspects of how rememberence Sunday. On this this thread there are 3 wearers (including myself) questioning at least some aspects of how things are going.

[Teuchter]

"If it costs the club nothing but time commitment, great. I imagine there would be a monetary cost to defending any negative media for not being involved."

Think about what you have just said? Conformity is the only cost free option in terms of publicity and money. Are these not at least some attributes shared with a mass cult? 

I am happy enough for the club to have signed up to the venture, but for the positive reasons given in posts above, and not the fact that conformity is the easiest option (I know that this is not what you said, but it was an interesting observation)

 

[Vinnie]

 

"Mr Roy Barry is spot on. Wearing a poppy is a very personal choice. Funnily enough, I rarely see poppy wearers complain about non-wearers, but non-wearers do bump their gums about "cults" or questioning the necessity"

 

Really?

Out of many instances, the backlash against the personal choice of James McLean suggests otherwise. It was yourself, on here, that said something along the lines that he was showing disrespect for the country where he earns his living (which of course, happens to be his country of birth). Was that respecting his personal choice and respecting the right of a non-wearer?

I might have said something like that about McClean. Has the kind of face only a mother could love and there is always a contradiction to every rule. 

"If it costs the club nothing but time commitment, great. I imagine there would be a monetary cost to defending any negative media for not being involved."

Think about what you have just said? Conformity is the only cost free option in terms of publicity and money. Are these not at least some attributes shared with a mass cult? 

I am happy enough for the club to have signed up to the venture, but for the positive reasons given in posts above, and not the fact that conformity is the easiest option (I know that this is not what you said, but it was an interesting observation)

Quite a spin on what I wrote? 

[Vinnie]

 

On this this thread there are 3 wearers (including myself) questioning at least some aspects of how things are going.

Why question it? Why not accept that the charitable industry (and it has become an industry) is congested.  And that congested marketplace has these companies spending on advertising and raising awareness year round. 

There are many charities aligned to other businesses, and football clubs. I dont see that Pars should any different? 

[Teuchter]

"Why question it? Why not accept that the charitable industry (and it has become an industry) is congested.  And that congested marketplace has these companies spending on advertising and raising awareness year round"

That is quite easy to answer - the majority of other charities are not related to the armed sector of the state that governs us. Most other charities are not susceptible to manipulation by politicians for propoganda purposes. It is for these reasons that questioning is not only healthy, but necessary.