James McPake and next season

[parsforlife]

25 minutes ago, kelty_par said:

Ultimately Mcpake is responsible for poor transfer windows.

I'm genuinely not sure if he is. Meggie is meant to be a massive part of these discussions and the last genuinely good transfer business we did was at best under crawford just as he became part of the club and the previous widows under craw before he did were probably better.

ETA. Of those clambering for a 4-4-2,  do you just believe this is an inherently better formation? Or have you identified particular strengths of individuals where overall you think it would be a better formation currently, but if we brought in particular personnel then you'd think keeping a 3-5-2/ 3-2-3-1 would be the correct formation going forward?   

Edited April 21 by parsforlife

[Raymie]

Formation should be determined by who is available and the opponent. 
to blindly play the same all season, with the injuries we have had, is questionable 

[Eastendtales]

7 hours ago, parsforlife said:

 

ETA. Of those clambering for a 4-4-2,  do you just believe this is an inherently better formation? Or have you identified particular strengths of individuals where overall you think it would be a better formation currently, but if we brought in particular personnel then you'd think keeping a 3-5-2/ 3-2-3-1 would be the correct formation going forward?   

The former, but also the fact that for the majority of the season the 3 hasn't worked. 

There were plenty times under Calderwood we played 352 and it was branded boring as hell.  If a team with that quality can be boring, I'm questioning it inherently.  

Scotland also play a 3 and to be honest we're also boring to watch mostly. 

[DA-go Par Adonis]

3-5-2 made sense during the injury crisis as he was trying to protect an extremely depleted back line. 

A bit more flexibility would be welcome though. I think we were all happy at the end of last season when KRH signed permanently but it appears that he needs to play wide on the right with a full back behind him.  I am guessing the board pushed the boat out a bit to get him (and Otoo) last season, so it is up to McPake and Co to get the best out of him.

[Grant]

13 hours ago, parsforlife said:

 

ETA. Of those clambering for a 4-4-2,  do you just believe this is an inherently better formation? Or have you identified particular strengths of individuals where overall you think it would be a better formation currently, but if we brought in particular personnel then you'd think keeping a 3-5-2/ 3-2-3-1 would be the correct formation going forward?   

 

All formations have there Pro’s and Cons. IMO at this level it is far harder to get a 3/5 atb formation working well because the roles that you use are a bit more specialised, and the player “talent” required to do them well typically isn’t there at our level, at least that’s what I think. And it’s predominantly with the defenders who are key to this with regards to creating overloads, if they’re not doing that you find players get isolated (Usually your wing backs) and it can fall to **** fairly quickly.

 

 

 

 

 

For 352 to work well, and to look good you need a few things.

 

Your WCBs really need to be capable of progressing the ball, passing is ideal but you also need them capable of going on overlaps of the RCB, as well as striding into midfield. As well as this you also need them to still be a bloody decent defender capable of standing up wingers in a 1 v 1, it’s actually a role that closely resembles an old style full back, however fullbacks tend to be shorter. We’ve tried a few players there with varying levels of success but they all have there own drawbacks.

Fisher has a fantastic range of passing and has the physical presence to defend those balls into the box, however his ball progression with regards to dribbling really isn’t there, you’re not going to often see him overlapping the RWB which can lead to said RWB being isolated?

Comrie does overlap and has better dribbling, however his defending isn’t as strong as MWH or Fisher and he’s obviously just that bit shorter which is problem if you then have another aerially challenged bloke on the outside of him.

MWH is probably an amalgamation of the other two, isn’t as good a defender of Fisher and certainly doesn’t have his level of passing. Isn’t as good on the overlap as Comrie but he will support the RWB. He’s the best we have in this position though IMO.

And that’s just the RCBs, the only LCB we have capable, and in fairness he is absolutely brilliant at doing it, is Otoo. However we desperately need him in centre mid, MFW is probably my favourite player atm but he’s just unsuited to doing the attacking side of things with regards to playing as LCB

You central defender needs to be a great organiser, we do have this in Benedictus, but as you find when he’s injured we then had to drop Hamilton back there who probably wasn’t strong enough in the air

Your wing backs need to have the defensive capablitlies of a full back as well as the offensive capabilities of a strong running winger. We have this in Josh Edwards, however his final ball is sometimes lacking. It should be noted though that the chances of replacing Edwards with anyone near as competent is pretty much nil unless you’re dropping Otoo in there. Decent wing backs at this level are such a rarity, there aren’t many that I can think off with SoD at Partick probably being the best I can remember.

We don’t have anyone who’s great at it on the right, KRH does it but he’s wasted picking the ball up at the half way line.

 

 

With Edwards leaving in the summer we’ll be leftw ith 0 capable left wing backs, with Otoo playing in midfield we have 0 capable LCBs, it’s a formation that can work but it will not work for us at this level unless we go on a big spree to buy the required players. I get why we have used it, our best players for a time were Edwards who looked at his best at LWB, Otoo who looked at his best as a LCB, and Todd who needed a free role in midfield. A 352 was perfect. But it’s not anymore. McPake needs to realise this and change accordingly for next season.

 

For me you now build your team around Otoo, Todd and Hamilton in midfield, with KRH as an attacking wide midfielder, a variation of a 4231/433 or even a 442 where you effectively call Todd a second striker can work. We need to buy a left back and a left winger, however they’ll both be easier to find than a Josh Edwards replacement, and that’s before we get into getting another Otoo for LCB! As well as a striker but bones of the squad are already there.

Mehmet

Comrie-Fisher/MFW(if we can get him)-Bene-New Lb

Otoo-Hamilton

KRH-Todd-New Lw

Kane(If we can get him)

[Yorkiepar]

Interesting post, Grant. I agree that we have the basis of a good squad. I doubt there’s going to be a quick fix though. From the little information we’re given it does seem that we are stuck with a supposed long-term plan that the directors favour - creating an Academy with independent facilities, growing your team from the grass roots, etc. - rather than splurging daft sums on players who potentially provide only limited returns. In principle you would have to say that it does look like a sensible financial model. (I presume that the persistence in setting the team up a particular way is also aimed at longer term returns). The problem is that supporters are generally short of patience - understandably, they’re paying good money and want to be entertained - so how long they’ll put up with these experiments is anybody’s guess. I fear that they’ll very quickly start to vote with their feet unless the Board starts to be a bit more transparent with their thinking and their communications.

[Yorkiepar]

Following on from my post (above) I came across this about Man U on the BBC:

The 71-year-old (Sir Jim Ratcliffe) said he was “about 10 km” into rebuilding the club, who are currently seventh in the Premier League.

 

"It's a long journey," he said. “The fans are impatient and I have some sympathy with that.

"It’s a journey and people, whether they like it or not, have to be a bit patient."

 

I think that statement probably mirrors the mindset of our Directors.

[parsforlife]

2 hours ago, Grant said:

 

All formations have there Pro’s and Cons. IMO at this level it is far harder to get a 3/5 atb formation working well because the roles that you use are a bit more specialised, and the player “talent” required to do them well typically isn’t there at our level, at least that’s what I think. And it’s predominantly with the defenders who are key to this with regards to creating overloads, if they’re not doing that you find players get isolated (Usually your wing backs) and it can fall to **** fairly quickly.

 

 

 

 

 

For 352 to work well, and to look good you need a few things.

 

Your WCBs really need to be capable of progressing the ball, passing is ideal but you also need them capable of going on overlaps of the RCB, as well as striding into midfield. As well as this you also need them to still be a bloody decent defender capable of standing up wingers in a 1 v 1, it’s actually a role that closely resembles an old style full back, however fullbacks tend to be shorter. We’ve tried a few players there with varying levels of success but they all have there own drawbacks.

Fisher has a fantastic range of passing and has the physical presence to defend those balls into the box, however his ball progression with regards to dribbling really isn’t there, you’re not going to often see him overlapping the RWB which can lead to said RWB being isolated?

Comrie does overlap and has better dribbling, however his defending isn’t as strong as MWH or Fisher and he’s obviously just that bit shorter which is problem if you then have another aerially challenged bloke on the outside of him.

MWH is probably an amalgamation of the other two, isn’t as good a defender of Fisher and certainly doesn’t have his level of passing. Isn’t as good on the overlap as Comrie but he will support the RWB. He’s the best we have in this position though IMO.

And that’s just the RCBs, the only LCB we have capable, and in fairness he is absolutely brilliant at doing it, is Otoo. However we desperately need him in centre mid, MFW is probably my favourite player atm but he’s just unsuited to doing the attacking side of things with regards to playing as LCB

You central defender needs to be a great organiser, we do have this in Benedictus, but as you find when he’s injured we then had to drop Hamilton back there who probably wasn’t strong enough in the air

Your wing backs need to have the defensive capablitlies of a full back as well as the offensive capabilities of a strong running winger. We have this in Josh Edwards, however his final ball is sometimes lacking. It should be noted though that the chances of replacing Edwards with anyone near as competent is pretty much nil unless you’re dropping Otoo in there. Decent wing backs at this level are such a rarity, there aren’t many that I can think off with SoD at Partick probably being the best I can remember.

We don’t have anyone who’s great at it on the right, KRH does it but he’s wasted picking the ball up at the half way line.

 

 

With Edwards leaving in the summer we’ll be leftw ith 0 capable left wing backs, with Otoo playing in midfield we have 0 capable LCBs, it’s a formation that can work but it will not work for us at this level unless we go on a big spree to buy the required players. I get why we have used it, our best players for a time were Edwards who looked at his best at LWB, Otoo who looked at his best as a LCB, and Todd who needed a free role in midfield. A 352 was perfect. But it’s not anymore. McPake needs to realise this and change accordingly for next season.

 

For me you now build your team around Otoo, Todd and Hamilton in midfield, with KRH as an attacking wide midfielder, a variation of a 4231/433 or even a 442 where you effectively call Todd a second striker can work. We need to buy a left back and a left winger, however they’ll both be easier to find than a Josh Edwards replacement, and that’s before we get into getting another Otoo for LCB! As well as a striker but bones of the squad are already there.

Mehmet

Comrie-Fisher/MFW(if we can get him)-Bene-New Lb

Otoo-Hamilton

KRH-Todd-New Lw

Kane(If we can get him)

That is a bloody well thought out post grant!

I think it is at the moment a formation designed to get the best out of edwards, and last year it was a good formation for KRH on the other side but KRH doesn't have the same ability to get up and down as edwards and in this division he's probably been pinned back too much for us to get the best out of him,  I think he'll need to be a winger mostly at this level.

I do like the look of the 4-2-3-1 you've put together,

I think you can take a different approach to 3-5-2(which we don't use. you correctly show it the roles we are looking for from wingbacks/ wide CBs) that involves the wingbacks not getting as high and instead of looking to create much through them crossing you instead try and swamp the middle of the pitch and create more centrally.  That's how Livi played when they won promotion.

Our attempt at that would probably look like 

Fisher Bene Breen

Comrie hamilton todd otoo edwards/new WB

kane McCann.

Which would maybe be ok, but if you look at who we'd have in reserve it would fall quickly apart.    Even if you take away opinions on how good they are and focus on style of play there's no role for chalmers, there's no role for MOH, there's not really a role for KRH and it doesn't really suit wighton either, tho he could do a job as one of the two.

You're also playing every currently signed defensive player, that would probably mean you end up signing more for cover using up budget when I think most agree we need to improve mostly in the attacking areas.

 

 

 

[Rossmcno1]

Some great posts here. 
 

We miss width of any kind.  KRH for me is the only player we have that is good enough and natural enough in a wide position. I’m excluding Edwards as I firmly expect him to move on.  There would have to be a concerted effort to address this in the new preseason, and it’s a big task.  One I don’t think mcpake would do.  It would mean a complete abandonment of the main formation he has used over the last 2 seasons.  

an alternative (and I think much more likely) is him doubling down on his formation and looking to develop/bring in more players to play it.  I can hear the howls of derision already - that’s not my preferred way, but I just think that’s what he will do.  
 

For me, regardless what he decides re formation, there are huge gaps in the team in terms of quality versus most of the league.  This means we need to make some player disposals.  Whether that’s making them available for transfer or what, it needs doing.  Mehmet, OHalleron, Chalmers - all for me in that first wave of most goes, not good enough for the level we should be looking to achieve (title challenge for me).  Second wave would include McCann (prefer to loan out at first), Wighton, Comrie.   I wouldn’t renew Jakubiaks contract.  Much prefer we went for the likes of Burrell at Cove than keep persisting with Wighton and his several underperforming games and recurring injuries. 

Either way it should be an exciting summer, but I do fear that we have a recruitment system that is too flat footed and worry we’ll end up scrambling again in both windows, which completely kiboshed our season. 

 

[Secure Par]

If Mr Cook is involved in transfer dealings then it’s going to be like this season as he doesn’t negotiate so I have heard?

7/8 players have to go and bring in Championship players. I would also like to see Sutherland getting a chance up top.

Just with this 10 year plan pish, I can honestly see the club/owners making sure we finish mid table in the championship for a few seasons to get the academy up to standard etc….. I’m just going to wait to get 3 x season tickets now to see what happens over the summer as if it’s the same team again then then I’ll do something else on a Saturday… 

[parsforlife]

10 minutes ago, Secure Par said:

If Mr Cook is involved in transfer dealings then it’s going to be like this season as he doesn’t negotiate so I have heard?

 

Mcpake doesn't do negotiations,  cook doesn't

So are these negotiations being done entirely by a bloke who your lucky to have in the country for 10% of the year, no wonder we can't get deals over the line.

[DA-go Par Adonis]

How are you meant to go about making sure a club finishes mid table in the Championship several seasons in a row?

Also, we've signed some amount of players - either permanently, on loan or contract extensions - for a club that can't get a deal over the line.

For some reason, we like to focus on the likes of Ashcroft, Rudden and Wotherspoon as opposed to Welsh Hayes, Kane, Jakubiak etc. 

Edited April 22 by DA-go Par Adonis

[DA-go Par Adonis]

We also brought Ian Laing on board, who seems to specialise in sports contracts.

[parsforlife]

18 minutes ago, DA-go Par Adonis said:

How are you meant to go about making sure a club finishes mid table in the Championship several seasons in a row?

 

We should be able to do that with a half-***ed approach, we need a recruitment process that means we can put a promotion chasing team on the pitch

6 minutes ago, DA-go Par Adonis said:

We also brought Ian Laing on board, who seems to specialise in sports contracts.

Yeah, and what has he done? Bring in one decent player in the January window? 

[DA-go Par Adonis]

He joined the board on 12th February.

We signed Chris Kane the day after and MWH just over a week later. It would seem harsh to blame him for January.

Re challenging for promotion, I don't disagree. My point is that I think it's pretty much impossible to plan for - and then achieve - putting a squad together to finish mid-table in the Championship for a few consecutive seasons. If you try, you'll end up going down.

Edited April 22 by DA-go Par Adonis