Vinnie Posted June 19, 2019 Author Report Share Posted June 19, 2019 9 hours ago, Secure Par said: we buy 5p bags and recycle our rubbish.... what else do they want us to do? Britain will not help Arent we helping already? 5p shopping bags is helping, isnt it? Most folk try to recycle, thats helping, isnt it? Obviously, its the tip of the iceberg, but its helping. Solar panels on homes, recycling plastic waste in to roads, recycling plastic waste into clothing. All helping? No? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teuchter Posted June 19, 2019 Report Share Posted June 19, 2019 10 hours ago, Vinnie said: Only a reputable source if you believe in the Moon landings, the Mars Rover, and other NASA "accomplishments"? Do you think a disc is more susceptible to warming than a globe? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vinnie Posted June 19, 2019 Author Report Share Posted June 19, 2019 Just now, Teuchter said: Do you think a disc is more susceptible to warming than a globe? I dont believe in flat earth, but, to humour you, I believe that it depends on what angle the disc sits at? If its horizontal, maybe? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teuchter Posted June 19, 2019 Report Share Posted June 19, 2019 26 minutes ago, Vinnie said: I dont believe in flat earth, but, to humour you, I believe that it depends on what angle the disc sits at? If its horizontal, maybe? I guessed that and was joking. I just happened to watch an interview with a flat earther the other day, and obviously the bedrock of their theory is a belief in the collusion involving all space agencies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vinnie Posted June 19, 2019 Author Report Share Posted June 19, 2019 2 minutes ago, Teuchter said: I guessed that and was joking. I just happened to watch an interview with a flat earther the other day, and obviously the bedrock of their theory is a belief in the collusion involving all space agencies. Given the amount of people who would need to be involved in such collusion, and given this need for folk to be famous by Social Media, I dont think anyone could possibly believe that all space agencies and all governments are signed up to a global cover up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SanguinePar Posted July 25, 2019 Report Share Posted July 25, 2019 On 18/06/2019 at 17:11, Vinnie said: Question: Alarming rate? How do we know its alarming? What records do we have from the past "x" amount of thousand years to confirm that? I think I have already agreed that we pollute the atmosphere, and that is perhaps indisputable, but alarmingly? Very late to this party, but to add to what @Digssaid, here's a visualisation of climate data from the last few millennia: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vinnie Posted July 25, 2019 Author Report Share Posted July 25, 2019 There are actually two views to consider, and given that we only have records of temperatures since around 1910 (I think it was), neither is particularly conclusive.... One argument is that its all our own fault, that humans are destroying the planet. That we've deforested too much or that we have too many car emissions. Or, the Earth's orbit of the sun is not spherical, but elliptical. So over a number of years (however many that may be), the earth will be closer to the sun more constantly and therefore warms up, as there will be times when the earth will be further from the sun, and we have colder spells, to the point where we will experience cycles such as previous ice ages. I think there is probably elements of facts in both, we simply dont have enough recorded data yet to have a definitive explanation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teuchter Posted July 25, 2019 Report Share Posted July 25, 2019 The stamping of youthful middle class feet in rebellion/tantrum would be nothing compared to the stamping of the same youthful middle class feet if governments actually implemented hardline ecological measures overnight and we necessarily sacrificed perks and modern comforts to cut industrial output. Save the planet my ar**. The planet will do just fine whatever happens. Humans may die in droves, but the planet will be fine. There is something every bit as ****ed up about millions hanging on the words of a semi-messianic Scandinavian schoolgirl as there is about the charlatans in number 10 and the Whitehouse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
average white par Posted July 25, 2019 Report Share Posted July 25, 2019 "The planet will do just fine whatever happens" Very much this... the human race will soon discover that no player is bigger than the club... Hopefully I won't be around to see it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teuchter Posted July 25, 2019 Report Share Posted July 25, 2019 6 minutes ago, average white par said: Very much this... the human race will soon discover that no player is bigger than the club... Ha ha, never thought of it like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
average white par Posted July 25, 2019 Report Share Posted July 25, 2019 I've been lucky enough to spend quite a bit of time around Native American people, and , reading this thread, I was reminded of this little pearl of wisdom, which is a very old Cree prophecy... When all the trees have been cut down When all the animals have been hunted When all the waters are polluted When all the air is unsafe to breathe Only then will you discover you cannot eat money Simplistic? Possibly.. True and incisive and pertinent? Absolutely... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vinnie Posted July 25, 2019 Author Report Share Posted July 25, 2019 @average white par needs to change that username to @ExceptionallyWisePar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
worldwiderab Posted July 25, 2019 Report Share Posted July 25, 2019 And to paraphrase something else that has been said over the last couple of days, we will be like tears in the rain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SanguinePar Posted July 25, 2019 Report Share Posted July 25, 2019 8 hours ago, Teuchter said: The stamping of youthful middle class feet in rebellion/tantrum would be nothing compared to the stamping of the same youthful middle class feet if governments actually implemented hardline ecological measures overnight and we necessarily sacrificed perks and modern comforts to cut industrial output. Save the planet my ar**. The planet will do just fine whatever happens. Humans may die in droves, but the planet will be fine. There is something every bit as ****ed up about millions hanging on the words of a semi-messianic Scandinavian schoolgirl as there is about the charlatans in number 10 and the Whitehouse. There would be if she was the only one saying it, but she's obviously not. I'm not especially familiar with Greta Thunberg, or her specific views, but as part of the general "we need to change fast or humanity is f***ed" narrative I don't have any problem with her. I've no doubt that she probably deals in some hyperbole and teenage naivety, but that's only to be expected. She just happens to have become the face of something. You're right of course that the planet will do fine, in the same way that Venus or Mars does. Those living on it though, not so much, as you say. Maybe the wording needs to be save humanity, or save life, rather than save the planet - although, tbh I think the unstated "as we know it" is just about as obvious as the unstated "too" in #BlackLivesMatter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teuchter Posted July 25, 2019 Report Share Posted July 25, 2019 1 hour ago, SanguinePar said: There would be if she was the only one saying it, but she's obviously not. I'm not especially familiar with Greta Thunberg, or her specific views, but as part of the general "we need to change fast or humanity is f***ed" narrative I don't have any problem with her. I've no doubt that she probably deals in some hyperbole and teenage naivety, but that's only to be expected. She just happens to have become the face of something. It's the hyperbole and certainty that does grate with me - no matter where it comes from. i think there are plenty of open questions around the data presented to prove climate change, but intuitively I do think that the planet is probably warming. That sits alongside the fact we are on a planet with finite resources Where the protests fall down, short of despotism, the governments of the developed world can only do so much. Any radical measures that caused a deterioration in lifestyles would just be fodder for populists. We have to hope that there is time and that the change in consumption habits continue as people become more aware and accepting of what is required. There is a trend towards this anyway. In reality, it will probably take some serious disasters like the disappearance of coastal towns (in the developed world) to provoke serious action. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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