Yogi Hughes is the new Manager

[Keyser Soze]

12 minutes ago, Digs said:

Bullying? 😂😂😂  It’s the exact opposite.

Its a leg pull, and as I said, is part of every football team going from Sunday league to international. It’s about that togetherness. 
Theres no doubt bullying goes on but it does in every other workplace too. That’s not what I’m on about. It’s about having a laugh, not taking yourself too seriously and taking the ****, exactly the same way you would with your social mates. 

Its builds friendships, a lot of the time for life, and builds team spirit and good teams. 

Im a quiet guy generally speaking but playing football made me the person I am and part of that is having the **** taken out of me by team mates and me taking the ****. I’d be a lot quieter if I hadn’t kicked a ball all my life.
 

That’s my point, it worked with you and that’s great but I’ll bet there’s thousands of men, women and children who may not only not enjoy that culture but actively dislike it. We’re immediately drastically cutting our pool of players by forcing this lad culture upon them. It strikes me as utter madness. In the grand scheme of things we’re a tiny country and can’t be affording to force out perspective talents. I would likely be receptive to that kind of patter but I know loads of people who wouldn’t. The sort of jokes I share with my friends I wouldn’t dare voice at work, I’d be on the dole within hours. So as such my behaviour is tailored to whomever I’m chatting to in that environment.
 

Walking into a brand new workplace and and behaving like isn’t acceptable and in fairness the players reacted in a negative manner. 

[Piracy]

35 minutes ago, Keyser Soze said:

Which imo is absolutely ridiculous. It’s frightening how many talented footballers may have been bullied out the game in Scotland all because that’s not a culture they enjoy. It’s antiquated nonsense as far as I’m concerned. You can cultivate a successful side without alienating swathes of the population. I genuinely believe it needs tackled as a matter of urgency if Scottish football is to progress to a level we’d all love to see it at. 

We used to say as bairns:

Fatty and skinny went to bed

Fatty rolled over and

Skinny was dead

😵😵😵😵😵😵­

[Piracy]

Phone the Polis!!!! 

[Keyser Soze]

1 minute ago, Shooboax said:

Phone the Polis!!!! 

Dearie me. Nobody is saying that. 

[parsforlife]

36 minutes ago, Fifes Elite said:

Depends on the tone. Could have been joking around.

Tone is crucial.

I'm a big fan of taking the **** out of each other,  and I don't have a problem with hughes pulling players legs if he's willing to take it back. 

I'm not sure if on day one hughes could be comfortable such a comment would be appreciated as banter,  and all of us need to remember its how the recipient of comments views these things that matters.  You can't dismiss something hurtful to someone else as 'only banter' ,  you need to know your both on the same page about what's acceptable before pushing the limits.

[Digs]

8 minutes ago, Keyser Soze said:

That’s my point, it worked with you and that’s great but I’ll bet there’s thousands of men, women and children who may not only not enjoy that culture but actively dislike it. We’re immediately drastically cutting our pool of players by forcing this lad culture upon them. It strikes me as utter madness. In the grand scheme of things we’re a tiny country and can’t be affording to force out perspective talents. I would likely be receptive to that kind of patter but I know loads of people who wouldn’t. The sort of jokes I share with my friends I wouldn’t dare voice at work, I’d be on the dole within hours. So as such my behaviour is tailored to whomever I’m chatting to in that environment.
 

Walking into a brand new workplace and and behaving like isn’t acceptable and in fairness the players reacted in a negative manner. 

I think you’re making way more of this than is actually there. 

Ask any player, at any level, what they miss most about playing and it this sort of thing.

You need boys beside you who will run through brick walls for you and bust a guy to do so, you read it on here and websites like it all the time that boys ‘don’t try’ (which is utter pish btw). This is the sort of thing that builds that. 

Good teams do this because they have a togetherness which is built on this sort of thing. It’s not about breaking boys down or anything like that, it’s about having a laugh and some fun. 

I was bullied, as in actually bullied, in real life, it’s ****. If I was to round up a bunch of boys to sort that out for me, guess where I’d go?  
So trust me when I say, this is not it. 

 

[Digs]

3 minutes ago, parsforlife said:

Tone is crucial.

I'm a big fan of taking the **** out of each other,  and I don't have a problem with hughes pulling players legs if he's willing to take it back. 

I'm not sure if on day one hughes could be comfortable such a comment would be appreciated as banter,  and all of us need to remember its how the recipient of comments views these things that matters.  You can't dismiss something hurtful to someone else as 'only banter' ,  you need to know your both on the same page about what's acceptable before pushing the limits.

And that’s the point. In the vast majority of cases boys know where the line is, and if they don’t, the rest of the team soon get them in line.

[Keyser Soze]

1 minute ago, Digs said:

 

Ask any player, at any level, what they miss most about playing and it this sort of thing.

 

You’ve literally just proven the point I’m making here though. We can’t ask the players who were lost to the game because they were alienated by the culture so clearly those who thrived in that environment are going to say that. 

[Digs]

5 minutes ago, Keyser Soze said:

You’ve literally just proven the point I’m making here though. We can’t ask the players who were lost to the game because they were alienated by the culture so clearly those who thrived in that environment are going to say that. 

I’d argue that if you can’t thrive in an environment of people who are outgoing and loud then it doesn’t matter what your occupation is, you’ll struggle because every workplace has these people. It doesn’t mean they’re arseholes, or bullies.

Being a footballer isn’t just about being able to kick a ball. You need to be mentally tough as well. That means resilience, the ability to tackle set backs, handling adverse criticism, the ability to turn round a poor situation. You can’t be a footballer without those qualities no matter how good you are with your feet.

If you can’t find your way in an environment that requires these things, then you’re not cut out to be a player in the first place. 

[Rengade Master]

6 minutes ago, Keyser Soze said:

You’ve literally just proven the point I’m making here though. We can’t ask the players who were lost to the game because they were alienated by the culture so clearly those who thrived in that environment are going to say that. 

You'll be saying next that players should be allowed to wear tutu's if they so wish so they are not alienated.

Come on the same could be said on the same balance we could lose kids due to the lack of banter, atmosphere, discipline.

In life we all learn during childhood and adolescence the environments we enjoy and fit into.

You can't change most situations to suit all as we are all fundamentally different!

Edited November 12, 2021 by Rengade Master

[Keyser Soze]

8 minutes ago, Digs said:

Being a footballer isn’t just about being able to kick a ball. You need to be mentally tough as well. That means resilience, the ability to tackle set backs, handling adverse criticism, the ability to turn round a poor situation. You can’t be a footballer without those qualities no matter how good you are with your feet.

If you can’t find your way in an environment that requires these things, then you’re not cut out to be a player in the first place. 

I agree with that 100%. You’ve gone off on a massive tangent there though. You can be all of those things and still hate the culture cultivated in dressing rooms and be forced out of the game.

4 minutes ago, Rengade Master said:

You'll be saying next that players should be allowed to wear tutu's if they so wish so they are not alienated.

Come on the same could be said on the same balance we could lose kids due to the lack of banter, atmosphere, discipline.

In life we all learn during childhood and adolescence the environments we enjoy and fit into.

You can't change most situations to suit all as we are all fundamentally different!

If a footballer wishes to wear a tutu outside of training and matches then they should absolutely feel free to. Would you see that as an issue?

I’ve not once advocated removing the banter etc. Tailor it to the individual. Walking in your first day and behaving like that is not acceptable. In any walk of life and the players responded in kind. It didn’t work and Raith were embarrassingly relegated. Case. In. Point. 

[Digs]

1 minute ago, Keyser Soze said:

I agree with that 100%. You’ve gone off on a massive tangent there though. You can be all of those things and still hate the culture cultivated in dressing rooms and be forced out of the game.

If a footballer wishes to wear a tutu outside of training and matches then they should absolutely feel free to. Would you see that as an issue?

I’ve not once advocated removing the banter etc. Tailor it to the individual. Walking in your first day and behaving like that is not acceptable. In any walk of life and the players responded in kind. It didn’t work and Raith were embarrassingly relegated. Case. In. Point. 

How have I gone off on a tangent? Have you not been saying that a culture where big personalities exist, with leg pulling, joking and a bit of patter are the environment, means that certain people who may not appreciate that are being forced out of the game? I mean, that’s literally what you said. 

Im saying, if you are incapable of the mental strength required to not take that seriously, and get upset by it, then perhaps you might struggle in any workplace where big personalities exist. 

Professional team sports require a certain mentality to succeed. That’s not being a Dick, it’s about being mentally tough. If you’re not mentally tough, you’ll struggle. My argument is if you can’t handle a bit of leg pulling, as long as it’s not bullying which 99/100 it’s not, then perhaps you’re not mentally tough generally speaking and that’s a reflection on the individual rather than the game. And that’s ok. Not everyone is suited to every workplace. In any career. It doesn’t mean that workplace is inherently flawed. 

[Keyser Soze]

1 minute ago, Digs said:

How have I gone off on a tangent? Have you not been saying that a culture where big personalities exist, with leg pulling, joking and a bit of patter are the environment, means that certain people who may not appreciate that are being forced out of the game? I mean, that’s literally what you said. 

Im saying, if you are incapable of the mental strength required to not take that seriously, and get upset by it, then perhaps you might struggle in any workplace where big personalities exist. 

Professional team sports require a certain mentality to succeed. That’s not being a Dick, it’s about being mentally tough. If you’re not mentally tough, you’ll struggle. My argument is if you can’t handle a bit of leg pulling, as long as it’s not bullying which 99/100 it’s not, then perhaps you’re not mentally tough generally speaking and that’s a reflection on the individual rather than the game. And that’s ok. Not everyone is suited to every workplace. In any career. It doesn’t mean that workplace is inherently flawed. 

In short, yes you absolutely have. You’re arguing two entirely separate points and furthermore you’re attributing an argument to me that I am absolutely not making. Lacking the ‘mental strength’ to not allow certain comments to wash over you absolutely and categorically does not by extension mean you’ll lack mental strength in other areas that will help you succeed in the sport. Mental strength isn’t an absolute and by that I mean you aren’t either mentally strong or not. There’s a vast, vast middle ground. 

[Rengade Master]

3 minutes ago, Keyser Soze said:

In short, yes you absolutely have. You’re arguing two entirely separate points and furthermore you’re attributing an argument to me that I am absolutely not making. Lacking the ‘mental strength’ to not allow certain comments to wash over you absolutely and categorically does not by extension mean you’ll lack mental strength in other areas that will help you succeed in the sport. Mental strength isn’t an absolute and by that I mean you aren’t either mentally strong or not. There’s a vast, vast middle ground. 

So you get mollycoddled through your development, you are are shielded from banter, leg pulling you progress to be a good player and make your debut in front of a crowd!

How do you protect that same player then?

[Digs]

1 minute ago, Keyser Soze said:

In short, yes you absolutely have. You’re arguing two entirely separate points and furthermore you’re attributing an argument to me that I am absolutely not making. Lacking the ‘mental strength’ to not allow certain comments to wash over you absolutely and categorically does not by extension mean you’ll lack mental strength in other areas that will help you succeed in the sport. Mental strength isn’t an absolute and by that I mean you aren’t either mentally strong or not. There’s a vast, vast middle ground. 

Well I respectfully disagree. Toxic culture in football isn’t endemic. It’s no more or less toxic than any other environment I’ve ever been in and I’ve played football since I was 8, now 45 and worked since I was 16. I’ve only had one bad experience in each. 

As a matter of interest, how many teams have you played for to make a judgment in this toxic culture you’re saying exists throughout the game?