The Trump Effect

[Vinnie]

There are 2 (legal) ways to remove him. Impeachment by the House of Representatives, or use of article 4 (I think) of the 25th amendment of the Constitution.

The latter allows for removing him from office if the VP and a 2/3 majority of the House decide that he is incapable of adequately performing his duties. Normally, it'd be down to physical incapacity (eg if he fell into a coma or whatever), but it's unclear how it could be used on the grounds of erratic behaviour.

Impeachment usually involves illegal activity?  You could argue that his rhetoric can be classed as inciting race hate?  Im not sure the case is quite strong enough for that?   Alternatively, the Russian connections, and the suggestion that Russia fuelled a distrust in Clinton?  Of course, when anyone investigates him, he sacks them and discredits them before they get too close.

Does the Constitution state specifically that incapability to perform his job must be a physical incapacity?  The trouble with citing erratic behaviour, is who decides whats erratic? 

What surprises me here is that there is no option to vote "no confidence".  Surely like any job, if you perform poorly, you are asked to leave?  There must be an option?

[Teuchter]

I hate to say this, but with the exception of him doing something that turns the Republican Party unequivocally against him, it would be a mistake to remove him by any means other than the ballot box. It would only make the U.S. more dysfunctional and ungovernable, particularly for any incoming Democrat president.

[average white par]

You know those concrete cows in Milton Keynes? Well, there are some wooden wildebeest in a field in Montana somewhere... however, Trump has just turned around and disclaimed them, claiming that they were fake gnus...

 

There will now be a short pause where I get my jaicket etc..

[SanguinePar]

There are 2 (legal) ways to remove him. Impeachment by the House of Representatives, or use of article 4 (I think) of the 25th amendment of the Constitution.

The latter allows for removing him from office if the VP and a 2/3 majority of the House decide that he is incapable of adequately performing his duties. Normally, it'd be down to physical incapacity (eg if he fell into a coma or whatever), but it's unclear how it could be used on the grounds of erratic behaviour.

Impeachment usually involves illegal activity?  You could argue that his rhetoric can be classed as inciting race hate?  Im not sure the case is quite strong enough for that?   

I would agree, although the Russia thing might be enough if Mueller is allowed to finish the job and finds enough evidence.

Re the wording of the Constitution, I read an interesting piece about that, will see if I can find it.

[SanguinePar]

This wasn't the one I had in mind @Vinnie , but it has some core info, plus a link to the full 25th amendment. It's only 400 words though, so here it is:

 

Amendment XXV

Section 1.

In case of the removal of the President from office or of his death or resignation, the Vice President shall become President.

Section 2.

Whenever there is a vacancy in the office of the Vice President, the President shall nominate a Vice President who shall take office upon confirmation by a majority vote of both Houses of Congress.

Section 3.

Whenever the President transmits to the President pro tempore of the Senate and the Speaker of the House of Representatives his written declaration that he is unable to discharge the powers and duties of his office, and until he transmits to them a written declaration to the contrary, such powers and duties shall be discharged by the Vice President as Acting President.

Section 4.

Whenever the Vice President and a majority of either the principal officers of the executive departments or of such other body as Congress may by law provide, transmit to the President pro tempore of the Senate and the Speaker of the House of Representatives their written declaration that the President is unable to discharge the powers and duties of his office, the Vice President shall immediately assume the powers and duties of the office as Acting President.

Thereafter, when the President transmits to the President pro tempore of the Senate and the Speaker of the House of Representatives his written declaration that no inability exists, he shall resume the powers and duties of his office unless the Vice President and a majority of either the principal officers of the executive department or of such other body as Congress may by law provide, transmit within four days to the President pro tempore of the Senate and the Speaker of the House of Representatives their written declaration that the President is unable to discharge the powers and duties of his office. Thereupon Congress shall decide the issue, assembling within forty-eight hours for that purpose if not in session. If the Congress, within twenty-one days after receipt of the latter written declaration, or, if Congress is not in session, within twenty-one days after Congress is required to assemble, determines by two-thirds vote of both Houses that the President is unable to discharge the powers and duties of his office, the Vice President shall continue to discharge the same as Acting President; otherwise, the President shall resume the powers and duties of his office.

 

 

[Vinnie]

"Whenever the Vice President and a majority of either the principal officers of the executive departments or of such other body as Congress may by law provide, transmit to the President pro tempore of the Senate and the Speaker of the House of Representatives their written declaration that the President is unable to discharge the powers and duties of his office, the Vice President shall immediately assume the powers and duties of the office as Acting President."

‌@SanguinePar, my reading of that is that it does not necessarily mean it can kick in when the President falls ill.  My understanding is that you could remove the President where there is a lack of confidence in his abilities?  The trouble as I see it is that Trump elected the folk who could force any change into their positions, so there may well be a certain loyalty?

[average white par]

Since all of us liberal types are here, may I recommend a website called "theatlantic.com"...it's an online magazine and full of most interesting articles on a wide variety of topics

[Vinnie]

‌@average white par - youre based Stateside aren't you? Whats your take on my earlier question - "It would be interesting to know whether Trumps fan base is eroding?"

 

[average white par]

Hi Vincent,

I was based Stateside for many years, but now live in Spain, a terrible place filled with sunshine, wonderful food and beautiful women... it's killing me man...

Seriously though, in answer to your question, I think a lot of people voted for Trump as a knee jerk reaction to the established order with some type of deluded idea that he would bring something fresh to the table... well, he's certainly done that...

As we all know, politicians are cheats and liars and if they're not kissing your babies, they're stealing their sweeties, and I've yet to find one that would get my vote..

Many of these utter nimrods are now clearly regretting this bizarre decision to vote for someone who is clearly an egotistical megalomaniac with no idea whatsoever about the serious responsibilities attached to the position he now finds himself in..

He has, of course, done himself substantially more harm than good with his ridiculous public outbursts and obvious lack of knowledge about the world around him.. 

Americans in general, while very warm and friendly people, have a very insular view of world affairs and are often remarkably ignorant about anything outside their porous borders which often leads them to make rather confusing decisions with regard to the way their country is run.

The people who live on the coasts are generally more sophisticated but there's an enormous chunk in the middle who haven't really come much beyond the Jim Crow laws or are still stuck in the 1950's... the reasons for this are numerous and would take me days to type out and dissect, but believe me it's true.

At the end of the day I think that the country, having chosen to involve itself in so many failed international ventures, has turned inwards politically and become far more nationalistic and selfish which, naturally, has reignited the nationalistic and selfish ideals which caused great troubles in their not so distant history.

So, in answer to your question, I do think his fan base is eroding dramatically... the important part is that it's eroding at the highest levels and this is what will finally remove this utter muppet out of the corridors of power...

Corridors which he has no business stalking... or even mopping, for that matter...

[SanguinePar]

"Whenever the Vice President and a majority of either the principal officers of the executive departments or of such other body as Congress may by law provide, transmit to the President pro tempore of the Senate and the Speaker of the House of Representatives their written declaration that the President is unable to discharge the powers and duties of his office, the Vice President shall immediately assume the powers and duties of the office as Acting President."

‌@SanguinePar, my reading of that is that it does not necessarily mean it can kick in when the President falls ill.  My understanding is that you could remove the President where there is a lack of confidence in his abilities?  The trouble as I see it is that Trump elected the folk who could force any change into their positions, so there may well be a certain loyalty?

That's true to an extent, since he picked Pence for VP. However, he didn't pick the Senators or House Representatives, and if anything he's made enemies of lots of them, eg McCain, Rubio, Cruz, etc. 

In theory he's only 6 Republican votes away from being impeached (though, they would obviously need actual grounds. Being an utter ***** may not be sufficient!)

Good post @average white par , although I do always disagree wih the idea that all politicians are terrible. Usually it's just the ones who succeed... :-(

[Vinnie]

"Whenever the Vice President and a majority of either the principal officers of the executive departments or of such other body as Congress may by law provide, transmit to the President pro tempore of the Senate and the Speaker of the House of Representatives their written declaration that the President is unable to discharge the powers and duties of his office, the Vice President shall immediately assume the powers and duties of the office as Acting President."

‌@SanguinePar, my reading of that is that it does not necessarily mean it can kick in when the President falls ill.  My understanding is that you could remove the President where there is a lack of confidence in his abilities?  The trouble as I see it is that Trump elected the folk who could force any change into their positions, so there may well be a certain loyalty?

That's true to an extent, since he picked Pence for VP. However, he didn't pick the Senators or House Representatives, and if anything he's made enemies of lots of them, eg McCain, Rubio, Cruz, etc. 

In theory he's only 6 Republican votes away from being impeached (though, they would obviously need actual grounds. Being an utter ***** may not be sufficient!)

Good post @average white par , although I do always disagree wih the idea that all politicians are terrible. Usually it's just the ones who succeed... :-(

I hear what you say about Senators and Governors and House Representatives, though I thought he picked the Speaker of the House?  Does Trump not also choose the Principal Officers for Defence, Judiciary and Executive Branches? 

[SanguinePar]

"Whenever the Vice President and a majority of either the principal officers of the executive departments or of such other body as Congress may by law provide, transmit to the President pro tempore of the Senate and the Speaker of the House of Representatives their written declaration that the President is unable to discharge the powers and duties of his office, the Vice President shall immediately assume the powers and duties of the office as Acting President."

‌@SanguinePar, my reading of that is that it does not necessarily mean it can kick in when the President falls ill.  My understanding is that you could remove the President where there is a lack of confidence in his abilities?  The trouble as I see it is that Trump elected the folk who could force any change into their positions, so there may well be a certain loyalty?

That's true to an extent, since he picked Pence for VP. However, he didn't pick the Senators or House Representatives, and if anything he's made enemies of lots of them, eg McCain, Rubio, Cruz, etc. 

In theory he's only 6 Republican votes away from being impeached (though, they would obviously need actual grounds. Being an utter ***** may not be sufficient!)

Good post @average white par , although I do always disagree wih the idea that all politicians are terrible. Usually it's just the ones who succeed... :-(

I hear what you say about Senators and Governors and House Representatives, though I thought he picked the Speaker of the House?  Does Trump not also choose the Principal Officers for Defence, Judiciary and Executive Branches? 

True, but then they're not the ones who can impeach him :-)

[SanguinePar]

Actually @Vinnie I just checked and POTUS doesn't appoint the speaker after all, the role is voted on by the full House

http://edition.cnn.com/2015/10/29/politics/paul-ryan-house-speaker-vote/index.html

[Vinnie]

Actually @Vinnie I just checked and POTUS doesn't appoint the speaker after all, the role is voted on by the full House

http://edition.cnn.com/2015/10/29/politics/paul-ryan-house-speaker-vote/index.html

Fair enough, I'll stand corrected.