Threat to supporters in stadia.

[Teuchter]

17 minutes ago, Digs said:

Who's het up? It's also easy for you to say you see no reason why anyone would be annoyed because you haven't found yourself in that situation where you were being asked to potentially isolate for the best part of a month leading up to Christmas. I only found out that wasn't the case about two hours ago. Loads of plans were in jeopardy, for lots of different things, none of which, bar one, were social I might add for a situation that made no sense, that wouldn't even apply if I lived 200 miles south.  

I think everyone has the right to feel a little ****ed off after nearly two years of this. 

Did I say Swinney and Sturgeon write all the rules? No I didn't. I said they take the recommendations then decide how to implement it. That doesn't necessarily mean they are following the science to the letter, they admit as much. If they were doing that we would still be pretty much in lockdown. NS can say what she likes yesterday about this not being political, of course it is. She made the announcement, I've no doubt with safety in mind, but was at great pains to point out that it wasn't political but then went on to say her hands were tied to go as far as they wanted, due to lack of funding. In the meantime, Westminster announces, whilst she's speaking, that they would indeed be releasing funds to the devolved government. Covid is one of the biggest political footballs ever, and they are all at it whilst we bear the brunt of it. 

This isn't a dig at her, nor is it SNP-bad, I voted for them. This is about the lurching from one direction to the next, both WM and Holyrood and us finding ourselves where we are 2 years down the line. It's about the lack of foresight and planning, the lack of learning from the mistakes that they keep promising they'll do, it's about the billions wasted on hospitals they never used, then restricting us further because they say the NHS is about to be over run, whilst people have lost their jobs, more are likely to and are still waiting for them to sort these issues. They are using this to cover up so much general ineptitude it's unreal. It's far too easy to say 'It's a worldwide pandemic', we know this so why don't you all stop squabbling and trying to score political points over each other and work as one to get the whole country through this because it hasn't been that way since March 2020.

I think that you said you would not isolate,  if I understand. Thankfully it seems all is go for you now after the test. 
I can understand your frustration- I have been het up myself during the year.

I am in work, so limited time now to respond. I think criticising for lack of foresight is unfair given the uniqueness of the situation. The additional hospitals were built on advice of advisors and also from looking at China’s experience. Perversely, it was probably a sign of success that they were not used.

[Piracy]

59 minutes ago, SanguinePar said:

Indeed. We (or rather, politicians) should have followed the experts before, but didn't. We/they should follow them now.

Who's even advocating we don't follow expert advice? I believe everyone is advocating we do. That's been obvious with the comments made on this thread. 

It's a pity a lot of the political elite don't even follow their own rules, Boris and the rest of the Tory c*nts for example. 

[Piracy]

1 hour ago, Teuchter said:

I am sure that you are not alone in being sick of it.

The lockdown was enabled (by furlough) more than it was ever enforced. I couldn’t see any government attempting to enforce a new lockdown in the U.K. I certainly don’t think that they are itching to lockdown as bawbags like Neil Oliver imply. 

I think some perspective is required.

This thread started of with the repetition of a rumour about football fans being targeted.

It turns out football crowds weren’t even under consideration.

 

I've already said millions are sick of it. Who listens to peopleike Neil Oliver?, not me, not interested in any political aspects or politcal leanings from anybody in relation to this.

My personal opinions are based on my own experiences in relation to Covid-19.

Regarding perspective, I think most of us have that, in fact in abundance. 

[Piracy]

4 minutes ago, Piracy said:

I've already said millions are sick of it. Who listens to people like Neil Oliver?, not me, not interested in any political aspects or politcal leanings from anybody in relation to this.

My personal opinions are based on my own experiences in relation to Covid-19.

Regarding perspective, I think most of us have that, in fact in abundance. 

 

[Rossmcno1]

What is frustrating for me, is the fact that every time there is a discussion on covid, be it in the pub or social media, is you get the drama queens who hit straight out with the “oh I think we’ll go back into lockdown”.  Get that right in the bin.  

We will be paying for the first sets of these incredibly draconian measures for the rest of this and the next generation - whether that be financially, wider physical health impacts(cancer care, strokes, heart issues), societally or mentally.  

We must not allow politicians to cover up their failures, by making the default action to be restricting our lives.  

They’ve had ample chances to beef up the health service infrastructure and look after the future properly and build for pandemic planning going forward.  They have failed.  

It’s absolutely ****ing rotten that we are being made to even think about considering restrictions mandated by legislation, because this virus has behaved exactly as scientists have predicted.  It’s an absolute ****e state of affairs and it has been made worse by politicians.

What to do now though? Not a clue. But I really hope they don’t start shutting things down again because I think it will kill more people through various impacts on poverty, wellbeing and society than it will from the virus.  We do need to live with this bloody thing whether we like it or not.

[Boston Red Sox]

6 minutes ago, Piracy said:

I've already said millions are sick of it. Who listens to peopleike Neil Oliver?, not me, not interested in any political aspects or politcal leanings from anybody in relation to this.

My personal opinions are based on my own experiences in relation to Covid-19.

Regarding perspective, I think most of us have that, in fact in abundance. 

I listen to people like Neil Oliver, Sturgeon, Bawjaws et al, I believe what I choose to believe based on the facts available. What I do know is that myself and my family have stuck to guidance as best we can, I am double vaccinated as are they and I'll get my booster tomorrow. What I also choose to believe is these restrictions wreck lives. My auntie spent the last year of her life in pretty much isolation. Knowing what we know now it would have been perfectly safe to visit her given we exercised common sense and reduced the risk to our family. I also know that this last couple of years has taken a toll on my mental health and wellbeing, and that of those around me. Listening to the medical information coming out of South Africa I am ****ed if I will go through another lockdown or adhere to tight restrictions. Possibly by good luck, good fortune or a bloody lot of self discipline and common sense I have avoided it thus far and intend to continue in this way. 

[Digs]

11 minutes ago, Boston Red Sox said:

Possibly by good luck, good fortune or a bloody lot of self discipline and common sense I have avoided it thus far and intend to continue in this way. 

I think that's it for most people who haven't had it. Both my wife and son work in retail, and have done all the way through this, my daughter is at high school. We've followed the rules all the way through.

I've been at the gym twice a week, the office twice a week, my son has been out in social settings, about as much as me and the Mrs, and we've had no issues until my daughter went to TRNSMT and caught it, unsurprisingly, but we took all the precautions due to the risk and had her test every day etc when she came home and we were all kept safe from it. 

Then, recently where I was in a pub and we all felt that it was a bit too busy, and too 'normal' for want of a better word but not that much busier than any other pub I had been in up to that point. We pretty much all caught it and I passed it onto my wife. Over 20 people infected linked to our group. Thankfully, no-one seriously that I know of but my point is that was the first time I had found myself in a situation that I noticed it might be an issue and it was. It's about where you put yourself, and use your judgement and being lucky too. I had done, and I was still unlucky enough to catch it. 

[Piracy]

5 minutes ago, Digs said:

I think that's it for most people who haven't had it. Both my wife and son work in retail, and have done all the way through this, my daughter is at high school. We've followed the rules all the way through.

I've been at the gym twice a week, the office twice a week, my son has been out in social settings, about as much as me and the Mrs, and we've had no issues until my daughter went to TRNSMT and caught it, unsurprisingly, but we took all the precautions due to the risk and had her test every day etc when she came home and we were all kept safe from it. 

Then, recently where I was in a pub and we all felt that it was a bit too busy, and too 'normal' for want of a better word but not that much busier than any other pub I had been in up to that point. We pretty much all caught it and I passed it onto my wife. Over 20 people infected linked to our group. Thankfully, no-one seriously that I know of but my point is that was the first time I had found myself in a situation that I noticed it might be an issue and it was. It's about where you put yourself, and use your judgement and being lucky too. I had done, and I was still unlucky enough to catch it. 

I've have greatly restricted and curtailed my social activities (in addition to strict adherence to guidelines etc) still caught Covid-19, as did my wife. Law of averages is we'll all now catch it in our individual lifetime. That hazard us just part of our normal day lives now. So you put in risk controls to mitigate the hazard. It's called risk assessing, I'll keep doing my own as I go about my business. 

It isn't going away, the politcal personnel in charge are needing a detailed and substantiated longer term plan to deal with this.

They also need to really start looking at all the other massive social issues now hugely exacerbated due to the intense focus on this virus. Yes it's a unique situation but not as unique as it was 2 years ago. We're still hugely reactive in focus and less planned in advance. Politicians are useless ****s

[Digs]

9 minutes ago, Piracy said:

I've have greatly restricted and curtailed my social activities (in addition to strict adherence to guidelines etc) still caught Covid-19, as did my wife. Law of averages is we'll all now catch it in our individual lifetime. That hazard us just part of our normal day lives now. So you put in risk controls to mitigate the hazard. It's called risk assessing, I'll keep doing my own as I go about my business. 

It isn't going away, the politcal personnel in charge are needing a detailed and substantiated longer term plan to deal with this.

They also need to really start looking at all the other massive social issues now hugely exacerbated due to the intense focus on this virus. Yes it's a unique situation but not as unique as it was 2 years ago. We're still hugely reactive in focus and less planned in advance. Politicians are useless ****s

100% This.

I curtailed my social activities too, but I'm trying to balance it with having some normality. I still don't have that as I love my holidays and I've only been as far as Norfolk in three years and not being able to go further has killed me tbh. I really miss the sun and I think I've just been lucky that we've had reasonable summers the last two years or it would have been a lot worse.

In terms of a plan, that's what I'm saying in my earlier post, they knew about this beforehand and did nothing. "We'll learn important lessons etc"...We're now on our 4th wave and still don't appear to have learned much. Except how easy it is for you to make money from a pandemic but that's another story...

It's been totally reactionary and whilst that's the nature of the beast to an extent, I don't think enough lessons have been learned each time round. 

[Superally]

Its difficult to achieve a lifestyle balance in a "coivd" world. Undoubtedly mistakes have been made and perhaps things could be better, indeed much better in some instances. However I do have some sympathy for politicians who are dammed if they do something and dammed if they don't. What I cant abide is "indecision, dithering and wait and see" - all too often the necessary action taken retrospectively is pointless as the damage has already been done. I'm trying to be sensible getting on with my life and will make every attempt to be cautious. I have three holidays booked for abroad next year and have recently come back from Lanzarote. I enjoy going out for a meal and going to the football. I go to the shops and try be quite sensible to give a wee bit of distance in crowded situations and always wear a mask and feel highly uncomfortable at those who don't - especially those who don't wear a Lanyard etc and don't seen to give a ****.  I went to Glasgow and Edinburgh recently but avoided the Xmas markets as they were like a bloody rugby scrum. I'm lucky enough that none of my family have caught Covid yet, but we are cautious in our approach as we also care directly for a elderly relative. I do a minimum of one PCR test weekly and at least one LFT test. Many who know me will know I come from a healthcare back ground so I fully understand the difficulties of the impact of Covid. Vaccinations, boosters, hand washing, social distancing, wearing masks and being sensible is the best advice I can give. Conspiracy theorists, complacency and indifference are our biggest risks to society, health and well being.   

[SanguinePar]

4 hours ago, Piracy said:

Who's even advocating we don't follow expert advice? I believe everyone is advocating we do. That's been obvious with the comments made on this thread. 

It's a pity a lot of the political elite don't even follow their own rules, Boris and the rest of the Tory c*nts for example. 

I don't think anyone here necessarily is advocating not doing so. I'm just saying that the governments failed to do it.

[Rengade Master]

For the ones questioning the source it came from listenting to Dave Cormack Aberdeen Chairman, the Inverness Chairman (name escapes me) and the Scottish Supporters Group President.

Who were all interviewed on Radio Scotland on Monday and all gave genuine concern for the game and transport issues to and from games but also concerns with the transmissibility of the virus and in light of the 40+ outbreaks down South in the PL connections were being made as whether fans in the stadium and the proximity to the players were exposing them to more risk. With this in mind the clubs are worried that fans found be excluded to protect the players and the league. On the other hand banning fans from stadia could bring on the real possibility of the leagues not finishing due to clubs folding.

The greatest problem is that fans travel on buses John Swinney clearly mentioned fans travelled to England for the Euros and many came back covid positive as a result of sharing buses and this is of huge concern with the huge games we have coming up.

 

It is also wrangling a lot of people that you can only have 3 households in your house but 50 people from 50 households can sit on a bus together singing, shouting etc with no face coverings and no social distancing. 

That sort craziness is totally undermining any form of credence of these new rules also as hospitality and shops are pointing out.

If you want people to comply with rules you have to stop making them look a little bit stupid!

[Teuchter]

6 hours ago, Rengade Master said:

For the ones questioning the source it came from listenting to Dave Cormack Aberdeen Chairman, the Inverness Chairman (name escapes me) and the Scottish Supporters Group President.

Who were all interviewed on Radio Scotland on Monday and all gave genuine concern for the game and transport issues to and from games but also concerns with the transmissibility of the virus and in light of the 40+ outbreaks down South in the PL connections were being made as whether fans in the stadium and the proximity to the players were exposing them to more risk. With this in mind the clubs are worried that fans found be excluded to protect the players and the league. On the other hand banning fans from stadia could bring on the real possibility of the leagues not finishing due to clubs folding.

The greatest problem is that fans travel on buses John Swinney clearly mentioned fans travelled to England for the Euros and many came back covid positive as a result of sharing buses and this is of huge concern with the huge games we have coming up.

 

It is also wrangling a lot of people that you can only have 3 households in your house but 50 people from 50 households can sit on a bus together singing, shouting etc with no face coverings and no social distancing. 

That sort craziness is totally undermining any form of credence of these new rules also as hospitality and shops are pointing out.

If you want people to comply with rules you have to stop making them look a little bit stupid!

What is your own suggestion?

Only a small minority of the population travel to games on buses. I imagine the vulnerable or key health workers, for example, would refrain. A trip to an way game is different from a London excursion with the overnight stays thrown in

A bit of inconsistency is probably better that catch all draconian measures.

The 3 households was only a suggestion, as was the advice to defer Christmas parties. They weren’t new rules.

People can make up their own minds what is safe with little compulsion from the state.

Do you want the government to set rules for every scenario, or would you prefer all restrictions are lifted?

Dammed if they do, dammed if they don’t as was said earlier.

[Rengade Master]

2 hours ago, Teuchter said:

What is your own suggestion?

Only a small minority of the population travel to games on buses. I imagine the vulnerable or key health workers, for example, would refrain. A trip to an way game is different from a London excursion with the overnight stays thrown in

A bit of inconsistency is probably better that catch all draconian measures.

The 3 households was only a suggestion, as was the advice to defer Christmas parties. They weren’t new rules.

People can make up their own minds what is safe with little compulsion from the state.

Do you want the government to set rules for every scenario, or would you prefer all restrictions are lifted?

Dammed if they do, dammed if they don’t as was said earlier.

I'm only passing on the information that I've heard being discussed unfortunately doing 35,000 miles a year I get a lot of time to listen to the radio. 

This is a very condensed version of the cusp of the matter re fans in grounds.

As for not many fans travel by bus, have you ever been to Celtic Park, Ibrox or a Cup final and seen all the coaches/buses parked around the stadiums? This applies to many away games that the old firm attend.

Also as mentioned how do you protect players in their bubbles with thousands of fans close by not to mention the linesman/women.

I haven't got answers, I have my own views but lets not open that can of worms 😉

[Raymie]

Leicester v Spurs is the latest high profile casualty because of Covid. I'd imagine that many more will follow?

Thomas Franck, the Brentford manager, has called for games to be cancelled until after Christmas. It has some merit, because as well as teams having to field under strength sides, it would prevent fans from attending games, thereby football doing it's bit to help curb the spread.

The downside is that Sky, BT and AMAZON have all paid big bucks to show games over the festive period and would no doubt want their money back?

Hot off the press and David Martindale has asked for a two week postponement in Scotland.

It's inevitably going to happen. No game and no fans or games without fans