Supporters Group Meeting

[Grant]

With the announcement of a new contract for McPake and McKay it was mentioned there was a quarterly meeting with supporter representatives. 

Now, there's every chance I've missed something in regards to this having only recently moved back to the area, but who are they? How does one become a representative of the supporters? 

The first I'd heard of such a meeting was the one earlier in the season when a poster (Apologies can't remember what one) posted up a very nice report. On it there was some cool details about what Cook and McPake talked about, I thought at the time it was information and a presentation that would later be given at the supporters council meeting. However having attended that the level of detail seemed absolutely miles off. 

I appreciate this may come across as petty, but why is there a tier system within the fans? What need is there for a meeting with representatives, when we have supporters council meetings? 

Due to not being affiliated to any support groups? I don't think I had a representative at this meeting, so how would I go about finding out what was discussed? 

[Digs]

Funny you should ask, I'm just home and I'm about to crack open a beer and write up what was said...

It's not a supporters representatives meeting per se. It's representatives of Supporters groups, ie this website, dotnet, supporters busses from Rosyth Supporters and Tappies, the Heritage trust, the centenary club, the business club, the disabled supporters club etc. It's not a closed shop by any means, but the idea is that as many groups as possible from a diverse range of groups can attend and then they will hopefully disseminate the info to their members.

I should apologise though in that I completely forgot to put a post up asking if anyone had any questions like i did last time, that was my bad, I've just been busy and I forgot being honest but I will try and make sure I do that moving forward.

[Digs]

I've taken nearly 4 pages of notes and this isn't every single thing that was said as some of it was stuff that has been said before and was also repeated from the last meeting. I've tried to write as much of it down verbatim as I could but as you can imagine, keeping up whilst listening and writing, isn't as easy as it sounds, but hopefully I've captured the essence of what was said.

We went round the room and introduced ourselves and David Cook kicked off with a round up of progress for the season so far. He announced that the Manager and Dave Mackay had just signed their new contracts until 2026 15 mins prior to the meeting and all parties were delighted to get it signed.

Progress has been good, DC said that they are very pleased as they had expected much more of a rollercoaster of a season that we've had and probably no-one expected us to have gone only one game defeated to this point and they are very happy with the way things have gone.

In the club, they have appointed Alistair Burr who has joined as the clubs new Commercial Manager whose main responsibility will be to work with DC to maximise revenue streams for the club with a focus on cost and capitalising on commercial opportunities. DC remarked that when he first started supporting the Pars we were a town of 40k and now we are a city of over 60k with the West of Fife now expanding that catchment by another 130k yet our crowds have stayed the same so they want to really tap into that market. 

He made the point that relegation this year left us with a £400k loss, and being in League 1 won't improve that much so they need to get as close to breaking even as possible. It's not about the new owners making money, they're not here to make a profit, that are here to invest in the club and it's infrastructure to try and bring success.

DC then moved onto the elephant in the room of the NW at the Falkirk game. He said for him, the atmosphere was in his top 3, JM remarked that he absolutely loved it. Both were adamant though that they want the same atmosphere but without the chucking of vapes and coins.

He said we have been under real pressure from the SPFL to at least be seen to act on this before it's taken out of the clubs hands. They have been in contact with the club almost daily asking what are you doing about the pyro, what are you doing about the coin throwers, have you caught them yet, have you dealt with them? The three boys caught on CCTV for throwing the coins were 11 years old! Daft laddies no doubt but they have been left in no uncertain terms about how unacceptable it was and have even had a visit from the police. A Falkirk fan has also received a banning order from the police for the actions in their end. The ban on pay at the gate was only for the Edinburgh game.

They were at pains to point out that the players love it, they feed off it, and they want to embrace the atmosphere the NW corner create, just without the chucking stuff and (this is my take not what was said) so it's up to us, as fans, to try and help police this. 

JM reiterated "We can't lose that atmosphere, the players all love it' and 'there was nothing like that at Dundee' and if you take it away it would be a huge loss to the team. "We want them more noisier, more boisterous, but less throwing of stuff at the lino'

DC said that after the display at the Montrose(?) game with the Turkey flag, he spoke to Deniz Mehmet's agent and he said he was in tears at what it meant to him for what the fans did.

JM later remarked that he hasn't seen many derbies like it having played in the Dundee Derby, Edinburgh Derby, and Leicester v Coventry derby and it's the biggest atmosphere of that type of game he's been involved in. He talked about the likes of Tynecastle that's a horrible place to go, and they want to turn EEP into that sort of place where teams just don't fancy it when they have to come here.

He said the players all talk about it, and the great support we take to away games, discussing who they have next week, how many will we bring etc. 

He did also say that it's crucial to what they are trying to build, ie a team. Every single person at the club pulling in the same direction from the players to the fans and even spoke about Kev and Willie the groundsmen who do an amazing job where nothing is too much trouble. He remarked at Dundee, he'd ask the groundman to water the pitch to get the best out of the pace of McMullan and they'd tell him they didn't want to in case it rained! That is the difference in what's happening and why is loving it so much here. Everyone is buying into what they are trying to achieve. There is no hierarchy, it's a big collective. They pressed the reset button and everyone gave it a chance.

He spoke about how they try and show the players the good things they are doing team wise, in regards to effort etc. He remarked that using the data they collect they were able to tell the team, as a group, they had collectively ran the distance to Argentina and back this year and had sprinted round an F1 track a total of 44 times. 

He remarked on Matty Todd's stats as being ridiculous in regards to the running he does for the team, they are very high. He was asked about his injury and he said they were hopeful he will be ok for Saturday but Breen they are less hopeful and it will be tomorrow before they will know, but it's not looking good.

He also spoke about how he had always wanted as a player to share his career with his kids but hadn't been able as he had been injured for such a long time. He's now able to do that and they are now pestering him to come to games. They were asking for weeks to come to the Falkirk game and they had asked him if they can go in the NW, he said he couldn't let them do that as he'd not be able to concentrate on the game 😂

St Pauli Game - They are looking at making this a weekend event. The game is a 1930 ko on a Friday night but they want to try and maximise it commercially so want to make a weekend of it, maybe have something on the Saturday too with bands maybe(?) They haven't got as far as a plan for that yet but they are absolutely open to ideas on what that could look like. He said this wouldn't be happening without the help of Thomas Meggle. 

Someone made the point that a return fixture next year and JM said he's well up for that! He said he's looking forward to it as it puts a different slant on Preseason as you normally use the games for fitness and working on things but this puts a different perspective on it, as they are a good side and so it's going to be a proper game. 

I can't remember how we got onto this but we spoke about formation, and I remarked to him that it was a credit to him and his team that we have got 2 sometimes 3 formations we can go to, which is difficult with such a tight squad. He said that it was a mistake he had learned from at Dundee. They got battered at Parkhead and they'd worked all week on a 3 at the back, then it quickly became obvious that it needed changed after ten minutes and they switched to a four, and now looking back, he can see why that was a mistake as he'd basically thrown his weeks training out the window and it wasn't fair on the players.

DC spoke about the 3 game package for the last three home games, and said there had been good take up of the tickets. Someone asked if we are doing anything with the local schools and DC spoke about the Schools engagement programme that GG Riva takes part in and said all the players were enthusiastic about it, which it was remarked was a change from the past. DC then responded to say that the feedback from schools and headteachers were that the programme was brilliant, and the players were excellent ambassadors. 

It was asked if they are confident they have a steady conveyor belt of players coming through and the response was that they are buoyant about the academy and they have decent hope for 2-3 players at each age group but tempered that with the point that there is a world of difference between being a promising player at 16 and turning out for the first team. 

It was asked if we think we can keep KRH next season and they said we are working on it, along with other out of contract players and some others not at the club. I asked what they are looking for, and that we have a good core but are we now able to dangle a carrot of potentially playing in the Premier League and is there phone ringing more? JM and DC both said it was, remarking that on deadline day it just didn't ring as players didn't fancy League 1. JM replied that he is rejecting some calls now based on players attitude to signing. ie he wants ambitious boys who want to work, not players coming just because if we are in the championship it looks better on their CV (that's not a quote, that's me paraphrasing and what I took from what he said). JM said one of the reasons they brought McGowan in was that they accept he might not play every week or 90 very often but he demands standards in training and in doing so, raises the groups standards.

It was asked what the approach would be team wise for the Reserve Cup Final. JM said the timing of the game wasn't ideal as he'd ideally like more game time ASAP for the likes of Todorov and Paul Allan but they couldn't get it quicker. Ideally they'd like it at a neutral venue and hoped it might have been given a bit more prominence from the SPFL given it is their first Reserve tournament and first since Covid, but both teams were given the opportunity to host, both accepted so it was given to Killie on a coin toss. 

The fact it is so late in the season means players may be out of contract, a couple may need some minor surgeries (one nose job JM insisted wasn't to improve the players looks but help him breathe) and so they may not be able to play who they want. Ideally they want a mixture of young and old players so the young guys can be developed by the senior players. It's not about playing them to ensure they win it but the players will want to do that anyway, for some it will be their first cup final since school. He said from day one of you are in the reserves and you don't give it the same respect that you give the first team it's not on. "We won't have players playing in the reserves who are going to muck about". They want young boys to learn what it's about to play in the first team, the standards required, if you make a mistake, it's fine as long as you keep wanting the ball. That's the things you learn from playing with first team players. 

He spoke at length about how he'd made a mistake at Dundee when he took off Lyle Cameron in their game against us at East End when we won 2-0. He did it to protect him but it probably harmed his development more by doing that as it knocked his confidence a bit. It's made him a bit more wise about how we treat young players and why he's been big on getting the likes of Andrew Tod and Sam Young out on loan to almost make their mistakes there, learn some resilience from it or from not playing week in week out, making them mentally tougher and what it's like to be a pro. 

 

That was pretty much it. As I said, it's not 100% of what was said but is the important points from what was discussed. Any questions let me know.

[Secure Par]

Cheers @Digs much appreciated👍

[Grant]

1 hour ago, Digs said:

Funny you should ask, I'm just home and I'm about to crack open a beer and write up what was said...

It's not a supporters representatives meeting per se. It's representatives of Supporters groups, ie this website, dotnet, supporters busses from Rosyth Supporters and Tappies, the Heritage trust, the centenary club, the business club, the disabled supporters club etc. It's not a closed shop by any means, but the idea is that as many groups as possible from a diverse range of groups can attend and then they will hopefully disseminate the info to their members.

I should apologise though in that I completely forgot to put a post up asking if anyone had any questions like i did last time, that was my bad, I've just been busy and I forgot being honest but I will try and make sure I do that moving forward.

I don't blame you for not putting up a post, I don't look at dot net anymore however I've just had a brief check and couldn't see anything mentioned on there either. However likewise there's nothing on the Cows, nothing on twitter/puss book etc. From the Pars fans I know and talk to on the regular, no one had any idea it was occurring either. I just don't see why we have this if we have the supporters council meeting, which is surely the best way to disseminate that information by letting those who can, attend? 

As it is though there does seem to be a pretty big difference in the meetings, the level of detail seems fascinating at these meetings, whereas at the last supporters council meeting the presentations by Cook and McPake were done within five minutes.

I really appreciate the time you've taken to write up the information though, thank you 👍 

[Digs]

6 minutes ago, Grant said:

I don't blame you for not putting up a post, I don't look at dot net anymore however I've just had a brief check and couldn't see anything mentioned on there either. However likewise there's nothing on the Cows, nothing on twitter/puss book etc. From the Pars fans I know and talk to on the regular, no one had any idea it was occurring either. I just don't see why we have this if we have the supporters council meeting, which is surely the best way to disseminate that information by letting those who can, attend? 

As it is though there does seem to be a pretty big difference in the meetings, the level of detail seems fascinating at these meetings, whereas at the last supporters council meeting the presentations by Cook and McPake were done within five minutes.

I really appreciate the time you've taken to write up the information though, thank you 👍 

It's more conversational tbh, and I think they use it as well to get info from us and opinions on stuff. For example, talking about the Falkirk game and the pyro etc, I made the point that it was advertised clearly everywhere how there was to be searches on entry. I went in as the gates opened as I couldn't get into Legends and there was already a queue, and no-one in front of me, nor myself, were searched so it was no surprise those items got in. 

DC had no idea that had been the case and so was grateful for the info. 

I think that is what sets it out from the wider meetings. It's also an opportunity for the groups involved to raise things with the club that effect their specific group, which they couldn't do at the supporters council meetings. 

[parsforlife]

54 minutes ago, Digs said:

Alistair Burr who has joined as the clubs new Commercial Manager whose main responsibility will be to work with DC to maximise revenue streams for the club with a focus on cost and capitalising on commercial opportunities. DC remarked that when he first started supporting the Pars we were a town of 40k and now we are a city of over 60k with the West of Fife now expanding that catchment by another 130k yet our crowds have stayed the same so they want to really tap into that market. 

He made the point that relegation this year left us with a £400k loss, and being in League 1 won't improve that much so they need to get as close to breaking even as possible. It's not about the new owners making money, they're not here to make a profit, that are here to invest in the club and it's infrastructure to try and bring success.

He said we have been under real pressure from the SPFL to at least be seen to act on this before it's taken out of the clubs hands. They have been in contact with the club almost daily asking what are you doing about the pyro, what are you doing about the coin throwers, have you caught them yet, have you dealt with them?

thanks digs, sounds like you’ve put a fair amount of effort into passing on this info.

I’ve picked out a few points 

1. a new commercial manager sounds good,  tapping into a increased population is something a lot of clubs have found difficult, but if he can get just a small percentage then that will likely pay his wage at least.

2.  Any suggestion of what a loss we are expecting?  I’m not sure on your statement, does it mean we have tried to absorb the loss of revenue but accept a similar overall loss? or have we been more aggressive and going for break even this season?

3.  I‘m still not sure about the clubs actions here, identifying culprits taking appropriate action great.   But just because the spfl are providing pressure doesn’t mean we can’t stand up to them, the comment about things being taken out of our hands is strange,  the spfl don’t have the authority to do so and you could point to about a dozen club easily who have had similar incidents but not reacted anywhere near as severely. I agree with the overall sentiment of keep the place bouncing but don’t throw stuff tho.

On an extra note, Was any explanation given to why we refused/were unable to sell so many tickets for the Falkirk game despite capacity being available?

 

 

On these meetings as a whole.  They seem very positive,  but I do agree with the questioning about why it’s select groups,   To me we are one group,  pars fans and I’m unsure about how, baring when digs has time to take questions etc from here individuals don’t have as much of a voice.   I see quite a few of the groups mentioned are basically supporters buses,  does how you get to a game really change things? 

[Rossmcno1]

The way I see it, these sessions seem like part of the communication plan, where subjects can be discussed in a bit more detail with 10-20 folk rather than a forum with 200.   This improves quality of discussion and engagement as long as the forums continue so Q&A can continue.

Appreciate the notes @Digs a good read.

[Al k]

Thanks digs.

[Digs]

10 hours ago, parsforlife said:

thanks digs, sounds like you’ve put a fair amount of effort into passing on this info.

I’ve picked out a few points 

1. a new commercial manager sounds good,  tapping into a increased population is something a lot of clubs have found difficult, but if he can get just a small percentage then that will likely pay his wage at least.

2.  Any suggestion of what a loss we are expecting?  I’m not sure on your statement, does it mean we have tried to absorb the loss of revenue but accept a similar overall loss? or have we been more aggressive and going for break even this season?

3.  I‘m still not sure about the clubs actions here, identifying culprits taking appropriate action great.   But just because the spfl are providing pressure doesn’t mean we can’t stand up to them, the comment about things being taken out of our hands is strange,  the spfl don’t have the authority to do so and you could point to about a dozen club easily who have had similar incidents but not reacted anywhere near as severely. I agree with the overall sentiment of keep the place bouncing but don’t throw stuff tho.

On an extra note, Was any explanation given to why we refused/were unable to sell so many tickets for the Falkirk game despite capacity being available?

 

 

On these meetings as a whole.  They seem very positive,  but I do agree with the questioning about why it’s select groups,   To me we are one group,  pars fans and I’m unsure about how, baring when digs has time to take questions etc from here individuals don’t have as much of a voice.   I see quite a few of the groups mentioned are basically supporters buses,  does how you get to a game really change things? 

I'll try and answer these as best I can.

No mention of what the expected loss will be, they will have no idea of that until we know for definite what league we'll be in, alongside who, and what sort of season we are likely to have. He never confirmed break even was the goal for this season. I took it to mean that by saying that being in League 1 won't improve that much means they expect something similar again this financial year but getting as close to break even as possible is always the target.

They said that they've been told that it must be dealt with or it would be taken out of our hands ie worst case scenario (albeit with no precedence for this and this is my take, not what was said) they could force stand or ground closures or similar type punishments. Someone made the point that these things happen elsewhere every week and nothing gets done, but DC made the point that just because it's not reported doesn't mean nothing is being done. We're not being singled out in this matter and as he put it, 'no-one is picking on Dunfermline'. 

There was no mention or questions asked about the extra capacity for the Falkirk game, which to be fair, is a good question.

As for the meeting, it's not 'select' groups. We knew about it because Piracy attended as someone who runs a bus, and asked if we could. Drew Main said no problem, and dotnet also got an invite last time (although can't remember if they were there last night, I don't think so). So if you have a group with a vested interest, then you can ask to be invited. It's not a closed shop.

Also, everyone who is on this website was technically there by proxy, ie through me. As I said, I meant to put a post up for things to be asked like I did last time, but I just didn't get round to it, but I will do next time. I would say individual supporters have their meeting which is the supporters council, I think those meetings would be more interesting and informative for everyone if eejits didn't ask stupid questions that everyone already knows the answer to, or ask something likely to embarrass the panel because it can't be answered, taking up time, but that's just me. They are a different dynamic though, as I said, this is specifically for supporters groups to ask things that affect their specific group, like the disabled supporters access, or how their bus has been treated at a certain ground for example, as well as some more general stuff.

As I said, they also use these meetings to get out info they need to like the events planned around the St Pauli game asking for ideas, or to specific individuals. For example, Section NW sometimes attend (not last night though), and there are younger lads who stand there who they were directly appealing to last night to try and help stop the nonsense.

So, it's not a tiered system of fans. No-one is getting special treatment. I'm taking 3 hours out of my night to go and listen, ask questions and take notes then spend an hour posting them, so it's not like I'm going then just keeping it all to myself and drip feeding stuff saying it's from 'a good source'. Come on lads eh.

[livipar2]

That’s a great update Digs, thanks.

All sounds really positive.

[Number Eleven]

The club seems to be trying multiple routes to engage with fans which is a good thing. There is no one group that can say they represent all fans - as we can see on here there is a range of different opinions.

[rosythpar]

We had Jock Taylor representing the Rosyth bus yesterday and I am sure he will give us an update on the way up to Montrose tomorrow.

Cheers for your update digs.

[Stanza]

Great report from Digs, many thanks.

As he says, DC and the Board seem to be very keen on communication with the fanbase, and are willing to try out new methods.

Having been involved with the larger Supporters' Council meetings since the start my view is that they never really developed into the proper two-way communication forums (fora?) we had hoped for - instead they became set-piece presentations followed by a few questions that usually didn't add much value (putting it diplomatically!) By the time the pandemic arrived the meetings were so sparsely attended they weren't worth continuing - not many more were turning up than now attend the smaller meetings like last night.

The mood music has now changed, and the dynamic of these smaller informal meetings is dramatically different - with smaller numbers they are far more of a two-way conversation, and everyone - management and fans - leaves better-informed. They are also much more flexible and (within reason to keep the numbers down) it might be possible for a few unaffiliated fans to attend occasionally - contact Drew Main, who organises the event. Remember though that (again to keep numbers down) not every group in the Pars family is represented at every meeting. (The obvious solution for anyone desperate to attend is to join a group!)

But it is up to those who do attend (I wasn't there last night, btw) to feed back information to the members of their groups in whatever way is most appropriate. What Digs has done is excellent.

[Eastendtales]

Appreciate the time taken Digs, nice work.