Supporters Meeting 14/03/24

[Digs]

Just back in, and this has taken me nearly 90 mins to decipher my horrendous corrie-fisted handwriting and type up so sorry for the delay! 🤣

As usual, it's not necessarily what was said word for word verbatim, as it's not easy to listen and write at the same time, and it's not necessarily in the order it was discussed as some things came round more than once so I've consolidated those together. 

It's also not every single thing that was spoken about as some of it was conversational and tbh, was just that, people's opinions and conversations, so not really worthy of including as it was just chat and isn't really an update. 

As always, this is just what was said, and only some parts are my opinion, which I will make clear, so don't shoot the messenger!

David Cook spoke first and gave a club update, and the manager gave his update on some things then took questions which formed the largest part of the discussion.

He thanked us for coming and reiterated it is important to get in front of the fans, win, lose or draw, something the manager spoke about too. 

Obviously, the fairly large elephant in the room was finances. They are obviously disappointed to be posting such a big loss but he went on to give reasons to try and give context whilst not discussing full specifics. They did budget for the losses, and spent money to try and give the manager the best possible backing to get out of league 1. They won't apologise for doing that. 

Rising cost in the world we are living in account for some of this too. Energy, cost of supplies etc, have hit the club like everyone else. 

Rosyth was obviously a big part of it. Even with the matched funding and grants, it was over £100k in getting the applications, planning and surveys done for the drainage with another £96k to get it done right. They see Rosyth as integral for the future of the club and again, don't apologise for trying to build a foundation. (my words here - Basically, it's more than just breeding players to sell on, it's about building a football foundation at the club - end)

With the £825k in investment from GMBH and match funding, it allowed us to get the ground to standard and get the pitches down. They hope to be in use and moving all football activities for the club down there some time next month, which is great news.

They left Fife Elite and put that funding into building our own instead of funding the development of players for them to go to other Fife clubs, which did happen. DC - I'm sure the fans wouldn't have been happy if we hadn't invested in youth - He does have a point here IMO

The approach isn't one where they are throwing good money after bad. I'm paraphrasing but they are basically saying that they know they are spending money but it is in a controlled fashion, and GMBH Fussball are fully committed to both funding the progress to this point, ie it's not been forced or a stretch, they are doing it in a way with which they are comfortable. 

Obviously it's not a sustainable position to be in but GMBH recognise that breaking even is hugely difficult for a football club, especially in the championship. 

DC said that he'd like to dispel the myth that we have gone from breaking even to losing money. Some of the reasons we did so for a long time were due to 'windfall events' as he referred to them. Things like selling Kevin Nisbet (first transfer fee) playing the OF in the cup. 

Last year we were relegated and even winning the league didn't give us much back - £120k for winning the league. The gap in the championship is huge though, mid-table finish in this league is treble that. We also invested in the squad and the manager (I'll cover off more of this in the manager part) and heavily incentivised the squad. We budgeted not to finish first, as it was a bit like tempting fate and a bit presumptuous, this is what they meant in the statement about budgeting for two play off games that didn't happen, and also paid out bonuses to the squad which wasn't budgeted for. We didn't get a run in the cup either, so no extra there to make up that shortfall. It was about £150-£200k swing from what was budgeted all tolled.

The truth about breaking even > losses is probably somewhere in the middle in terms of the truth and what people believe. He was in no way saying anything about the previous board or how it was run.

He covered Greg Shields and some of the rumours that DC was behind him leaving. He said absolutely not, and praised him for the job he did in developing a lot of our promising youngsters. He said Greg reached a point in his career where he had to decide if he wanted to continue to pursue a career in the game and decided to go down a different route. 

He did say they are talking to 6 or 7 really interesting people for his replacement and those discussions are ongoing.

He covered the assertion/accusations of how 'interested/invested' GMBH are saying there is at least one of them over once a month, with 5 of them having been over multiple times over the course of the season and Thomas Meggle coming across once a month on top of that. Nothing has changed in terms of their commitment.

Regarding paid staff, they are doing this to try and professionalise the club. Obviously that has also had an impact on finances too. Alister Burn has just passed his one year in the job and is doing well, they have also brought in a new Ticketing and Events manager. They previously had someone else that didn't work out but the new guy has settled in well, another Pars fan. 

He finished off by saying the supporters have been great, referencing the Airdrie 5k gate as an example of how the fans have continued to stick by the team.

A question was asked about the sustainability of losing money season on season and how is that sustainable. There was a question of when does that come to a point where they say 'enough is enough'. I reminded DC that even though it is 10 years ago, the wounds of admin are still fresh in some people's minds, and whilst no-one is really questioning the integrity or motives of GMBH, what reassurances do we have that they won't just walk away?

Basically, it was reasserted that they absolutely are fully committed and whilst we have made losses, they aren't phased by this. The emphasis is getting the club to where they want it to be infrastructure-wise, and on a day to day, looking at both costs and revenue and developing ways of improving both. DC said he has a guy coming from Germany to work with him on this who has worked with one of GMBH before on this very thing (can't remember who it was with, or if it was even said). The extra £300k didn't have to be requested by the board, they made that investment when it was required without question. 

DC was also keen to point out that the rumours around us missing players over the sake of £100 etc is not true. He said we can easily compete with anyone in this league on that point. Every player we have missed has been for footballing or professional reasons. ie going to Rovers over us to fight for a medal/title as opposed to a mid-table (or worse - my words - relegation battle). 

To illustrate this he said 3 of our summer targets signed for Premier teams. It was put to him that did we maybe shoot too high and this has cost us and he said he wasn't going to apologise for the club having ambition and ambitious targets. By the sounds of it, it's a tough market we're dealing in and small margins in regards to success or failure in getting deals done. 

Whilst they thought Ashcroft was a done deal, it fell through, on the choice of the player for football reasons late in the day. On the flip side, Kane signing for us was the same things as he had another deal agreed for him elsewhere but decided to come to us. 

ON deadline day, we had a deal agreed for an international player who was coming up from England, he was coming. Then we got a call to say he had had a late offer to go to Australia, which he couldn't turn down. The board gave him the option to bring in someone else so they moved for Malakai. None of the deals were 'panic signings' they were all players we had been watching. DC then stressed, in summary we would never lose out on a player for the sake of £100pw.

Lastly, he confirmed there had been considerable damage to seats, toilets, and graffiti at Starks on Saturday. It's not acceptable and this is going to cost the club. 

The Manager then gave an update. He is happy with the squad and where we are. He feels that the squad as a whole in regards to the ability in it is better than last year. He's delighted with the development of the likes of Otoo and Tod, who is now on his way back. 

As an aside, DC said that this group is better than the group we had when he came in, paraphrasing, better team spirit, better attitude as a hole and more together.

Incidentally on Otoo, the manager said he turned down an extension at Celtic on more money to come here, because he wanted to develop his football. Which I think everyone would agree is working out well for him.

In regards to injuries, he feels there are definitely some, in hindsight, that they could have prevented. Bene being one, JM holds his hands up to that. Bene felt himself he was fine and broke down again, but we have changed how we approach this with individuals now to avoid this scenario again. Taking into account how the player feels with the data on the rehab. How they approach the rehab and how they manage them back. Bene wasn't rushed back per se, he'd done the rehab, but it was maybe still a week or so too soon. 

I asked the manager what has changed form last year in regards to injuries. Yes, it's horrendously unlucky, and I agreed I'd never seen anything like it, but it can't all be bad luck. What's changed and what is the data telling us if anything?

He gave a really good explanation saying that they had looked at absolutely everything. All of the traditional markers in the data you look for were showing really high numbers for us, as we press high, and we run a lot. We have actually run more this year on average than last year, and more at top speeds. He took the problem to someone he knows outside of the club for advice, a really good sports scientist who looked at things and made some suggestions. (he was keen to point out this isn't a reflection on current or previous staff - just a fresh pair of eyes from someone he trusts)

Now we are starting to be a lot more personal in terms of load, baseline load rest etc than we were before. We were working with a too generic approach previously, so we are taking it a lot more individually then we were before in terms of what we're asking them to do in training, comparing that to what they've done in games, when, for how long, at what speed. We are now asking the sports science team to come to him with more info on this to advise on what they should all be doing as individuals. There's loads more but in short, I was happy with the explanation as he put it down to himself saying maybe it's a learning curve for him as a young manager, and so we have now implemented changes which we are starting to see the benefit of now with players coming back and staying fit. 

As an aside, Chris Kane's injury is an older recurring one, so the good thing is he knows how to manage his own recovery for it.

He said that if someone had said at this point we'd be 5 points of the playoffs he'd probably have taken it, but has also been in the league long enough to realise we are not that far above relegation either. We have a squad of 22 tomorrow, so it's getting fitter all the time. We always wanted to consolidate this year at the very least, but the main overall aim is still to get this team to the Prem (I took this to mean not necessarily this year, but not in a negative way)

He said he made a statement after 5/6 games that this team will not be relegated and he stands by it. 

They never budgeted for the severity of the injuries, and the cost for surgeries has been astronomical. That has obviously come at a cost but it absolutely did NOT affect playing budget. 

I also asked are we having to manage the players differently to make sure they don't make the Bene mistake, and he basically said yes, and they do now. However he pointed out that we have had players putting themselves through it when we were at rock bottom injury wise. Wighton played with an injection against QP. Summers played with an injury that game too. Hammy has a sunken bone in his cheek and was warned it needed surgery or may not be able to be fixed. He was given the choice, and said he wanted the surgery. Next day, he came in and said he'd leave it and play. They told him he didn't need to do that, but he wanted to put it off so he could help the team.

(My words) I think they are trying to stress that the group has a brilliant attitude, and will run through brick walls four each other, and us. and they just wanted to acknowledge it. 

We discussed goals, and lack thereof, and the reasons behind it. When we were 3rd bottom, we had the second best defensive record in terms of goals conceded, and second only to Utd for expected goals, ie chances that should have been converted. It was margins that small that we are working under, which I agree with. 

He says that we absolutely have to be scoring goals and we need to get that in the team and they are working on this. They even considered are they working too much on it on training, were they putting them under too much pressure with it? (They weren't - they changed it up and it made no difference  but I think this dispels the part about them not being coached).

On the striker front, they said that Taylor Sutherland is knocking on the door and that they absolutely see him starting soon, and that as a finisher, he's got it, and scores barrowloads in training. He said he is a great kid with a brilliant attitude, always wants to learn and is always asking questions, wants to learn the game. So, don't be surprised to see him start a game soon...

I think this is about it, I don't think I've missed anything important. There were a couple of bits and bobs that were conversational etc, but this is the pertinent parts.

If anything isn't clear, ask below and I'll try and answer as best I can.

 

 

[Piracy]

Summary of tonight. I got there at 7pm and discussions were underway. I thought it started then, but now realise it started at 6pm, so apologies I missed a huge chunk of information.

James McPake speaking about the bad injury situation this season. Some of the situation could be attributed to his decision making and maybe his naivety as a younger manager. He had overlooked the effects of increasing training for individual players (not all players as physical as each other). Since then they've set about adjusting training for each player (where required) after speaking to a top sports scientist. This also led to a full review and how it introduced a learning from experience situation. They now have a regular review every 28 days or so and they're a lot more educated and effective in managing training and injury. David Cook spoke about how they've brought in a new physio who has 15 to 20 years experience in his profession. He also mentioned pitch inconsistency and how it may have added to the injury situation.

The question was asked if there was any concerns about our own pitch? the area under the main stand was mentioned, the persistent rain had caused issues. Pitch hasn't had any major level of maintenance, but it's not felt it is yet needed. Also James McPake mentioned the state of some of the pitches we're asking players to play on. 

Drew Main spoke about the damage to the toilets at Starks Park and how inevitably it would cost our club money in damage repair. David Cook spoke about understanding the passion in such games but we've all got to moderate our behaviour. The topic of self policing among our fans was discussed. It was felt that this does go on and things are getting better with less objects onto the pitch this season (may be an indicator).

The question was asked of there was anything specific that fans could do to help the club (few examples given as a for instance). The basic answer was, just keep supporting the team home and away in the way we have been doing. James McPake spoke about he always tells his players to go and applaud the fans win or defeat. He stressed he understands fans booing and voicing their frustrations, and they're absolutely entitled to do so. He also said that the players actually go to the fans at the end of a match regardless (without his persuasion). He spoke about how passionate he felt after our recent win against Partick Thistle and what a lift it gave him and the players. He also said after Dundee he had fell out of love with the game but almost immediately after joining Dunfermline that changed.

Specific mention was made about the recent display in the NW in respect to Harry Melrose passing away. Mr Melrose's family were touched by this.

Question was asked about the lack of converting chances into goals and just about the lack of goals this season. Some discussion about the reasons for this, the frustration, some mention of statistics, of chances created,chances not taken etc, also tactics. Maybe players sometimes lacking positional awareness, not throwing themselves at opportunities with a real desire to score. Not being ruthless enough in set play situations, being a bit wiser in the box. Bottom line is there's  no specific answer but they're working really hard to remedy the situation. It's priority given our current plight and league position.

Digs asked about the potential of playing Tyler Sutherland, and James McPake spoke about it becoming closer and also about his almost natural ability to score goals.

On Kane, he's not playing against United but should be fit to play the remaining games this season (avoiding injury of course). Discussion on how an experienced player like Kane up front is actually invaluable for us. His ability, drive, skill and being streetwise on the pitch. 

Discussion on how good a lot of our play in games has been, yet because we can't score goals it obviously cost us by not finding a way to win games. Last season we had the benefit of having a consistent defence to build from.

The following text below is from memory as I had stopped taking notes at this stage (to ask questions) and it's from memory, so I've done my best to give a fair representation of the questions asked and the answers given. Maybe Digs can correct anything I've mispresented and I'd be happy with that.

Question was asked it is known that the club is only funding the development at Rosyth because of a £700,000 grant funding and an additional loan of £300k from Fussball. I'm assuming this is because the cash reserves of DAFC cannot cover this?, I personally don't feel that the question about the cash reserves not being available from club funds was clearly answered, but maybe my articulation or interpretation wasn't up to scratch. What point was clear is that the Fussball representatives had no trouble funding the £300k. It was also asked if it's cost £1million to this stage, where would the next funds come for the next stage. Again, I'm not sure the answer was in any great level of detail, but they have a strategy for this. 

The point was made that we're seeing significant losses for 3 consecutive seasons, over £1millon 2022/23 and a 6 figure sum for this season, concerns that this isn't sustainable for a club of our size and in our position. David Cook pointed out his 20 years in football and the business experience and acumen of the gentlemen from Gmbh Fussball and they're comfortable with the way they're managing the situation. They'll drive these losses down going forward

Question asked about the potential for the provision of a detailed and coherent business plan from the board outlining their plans. David Cook replied that they have a strategy and they're confident in the strategy. Again stressing the experience of those on the Board. He also said that putting out frequent statements would be repetitive and maybe not adding a great deal of value. 

Asked about the losses not having the profit and loss aspect to it, as in revenue against cost, we were told the club has never posted that level of detail regarding accounts. I thought they had, but I stand corrected, but like I said I'm no accountant. Obviously there's no legal obligation to do so given it's a small company.

Some discussion (again) about why some supporters will be concerned about the losses sustained given what happened just over 10 years ago. Stressed by the person making the point no one was questioning the integrity of the board, just seeking reassurance and clarity through the opportunity to ask questions about the losses.

There was more detail and discussion points I'll have missed, but that's it from me.

 

 

[Superally]

Im sure everyone will agree, brilliant summery, well done @Piracy & @Digs. Good work. 

[scottyboy]

Cheers for that guy's, for the written response and the time spent along at the meeting.

[Grant]

Massive thanks to @Digs and @Piracy for going along and for the summary, cracking effort.

There's a few bits in the summary that give me a bit of the fear tbh, I'll try and type them up tomorrow but it's not for lack of clarity in the post, it's just the information conflicts sharply with things I'd heard previously. 

[Piracy]

1 minute ago, Grant said:

Massive thanks to @Digs and @Piracy for going along and for the summary, cracking effort.

There's a few bits in the summary that give me a bit of the fear tbh, I'll try and type them up tomorrow but it's not for lack of clarity in the post, it's just the information conflicts sharply with things I'd heard previously. 

Grant, happy to give further opinions and also to post up the questions I had put forward on my email to the club. 

[Yorkie]

Thanks for summary , the thing that deeply concerns me is the comment that “ McPake is happy where we are and with the squad” frankly I find that alarming. 

[parsforlife]

1 hour ago, Digs said:

DC said that he'd like to dispel the myth that we have gone from breaking even to losing money. Some of the reasons we did so for a long time were due to 'windfall events' as he referred to them. Things like selling Kevin Nisbet (first transfer fee) playing the OF in the cup. 

It was about £150-£200k swing from what was budgeted all tolled.

The truth about breaking even > losses is probably somewhere in the middle in terms of the truth and what people believe. He was in no way saying anything about the previous board or how it was run.

He covered Greg Shields and some of the rumours that DC was behind him leaving. He said absolutely not, and praised him for the job he did in developing a lot of our promising youngsters. He said Greg reached a point in his career where he had to decide if he wanted to continue to pursue a career in the game and decided to go down a different route. 

He did say they are talking to 6 or 7 really interesting people for his replacement and those discussions are ongoing.

He covered the assertion/accusations of how 'interested/invested' GMBH are saying there is at least one of them over once a month, with 5 of them having been over multiple times over the course of the season and Thomas Meggle coming across once a month on top of that. Nothing has changed in terms of their commitment.

Regarding paid staff, they are doing this to try and professionalise the club. Obviously that has also had an impact on finances too. Alister Burn has just passed his one year in the job and is doing well, they have also brought in a new Ticketing and Events manager. They previously had someone else that didn't work out but the new guy has settled in well, another Pars fan. 

He finished off by saying the supporters have been great, referencing the Airdrie 5k gate as an example of how the fans have continued to stick by the team.

A question was asked about the sustainability of losing money season on season and how is that sustainable. There was a question of when does that come to a point where they say 'enough is enough'. I reminded DC that even though it is 10 years ago, the wounds of admin are still fresh in some people's minds, and whilst no-one is really questioning the integrity or motives of GMBH, what reassurances do we have that they won't just walk away?

Basically, it was reasserted that they absolutely are fully committed and whilst we have made losses, they aren't phased by this. The emphasis is getting the club to where they want it to be infrastructure-wise, and on a day to day, looking at both costs and revenue and developing ways of improving both. DC said he has a guy coming from Germany to work with him on this who has worked with one of GMBH before on this very thing (can't remember who it was with, or if it was even said). The extra £300k didn't have to be requested by the board, they made that investment when it was required without question. 

DC was also keen to point out that the rumours around us missing players over the sake of £100 etc is not true. He said we can easily compete with anyone in this league on that point. Every player we have missed has been for footballing or professional reasons. ie going to Rovers over us to fight for a medal/title as opposed to a mid-table (or worse - my words - relegation battle). 

To illustrate this he said 3 of our summer targets signed for Premier teams. It was put to him that did we maybe shoot too high and this has cost us and he said he wasn't going to apologise for the club having ambition and ambitious targets. By the sounds of it, it's a tough market we're dealing in and small margins in regards to success or failure in getting deals done. 

Whilst they thought Ashcroft was a done deal, it fell through, on the choice of the player for football reasons late in the day. On the flip side, Kane signing for us was the same things as he had another deal agreed for him elsewhere but decided to come to us. 

ON deadline day, we had a deal agreed for an international player who was coming up from England, he was coming. Then we got a call to say he had had a late offer to go to Australia, which he couldn't turn down. The board gave him the option to bring in someone else so they moved for Malakai. None of the deals were 'panic signings' they were all players we had been watching. DC then stressed, in summary we would never lose out on a player for the sake of £100pw.

Lastly, he confirmed there had been considerable damage to seats, toilets, and graffiti at Starks on Saturday. It's not acceptable and this is going to cost the club. 

The Manager then gave an update. He is happy with the squad and where we are. He feels that the squad as a whole in regards to the ability in it is better than last year. He's delighted with the development of the likes of Otoo and Tod, who is now on his way back. 

As an aside, DC said that this group is better than the group we had when he came in, paraphrasing, better team spirit, better attitude as a hole and more together.

Incidentally on Otoo, the manager said he turned down an extension at Celtic on more money to come here, because he wanted to develop his football. Which I think everyone would agree is working out well for him.

In regards to injuries, he feels there are definitely some, in hindsight, that they could have prevented. Bene being one, JM holds his hands up to that. Bene felt himself he was fine and broke down again, but we have changed how we approach this with individuals now to avoid this scenario again. Taking into account how the player feels with the data on the rehab. How they approach the rehab and how they manage them back. Bene wasn't rushed back per se, he'd done the rehab, but it was maybe still a week or so too soon. 

I asked the manager what has changed form last year in regards to injuries. Yes, it's horrendously unlucky, and I agreed I'd never seen anything like it, but it can't all be bad luck. What's changed and what is the data telling us if anything?

He gave a really good explanation saying that they had looked at absolutely everything. All of the traditional markers in the data you look for were showing really high numbers for us, as we press high, and we run a lot. We have actually run more this year on average than last year, and more at top speeds. He took the problem to someone he knows outside of the club for advice, a really good sports scientist who looked at things and made some suggestions. (he was keen to point out this isn't a reflection on current or previous staff - just a fresh pair of eyes from someone he trusts)

Now we are starting to be a lot more personal in terms of load, baseline load rest etc than we were before. We were working with a too generic approach previously, so we are taking it a lot more individually then we were before in terms of what we're asking them to do in training, comparing that to what they've done in games, when, for how long, at what speed. We are now asking the sports science team to come to him with more info on this to advise on what they should all be doing as individuals. There's loads more but in short, I was happy with the explanation as he put it down to himself saying maybe it's a learning curve for him as a young manager, and so we have now implemented changes which we are starting to see the benefit of now with players coming back and staying fit. 

As an aside, Chris Kane's injury is an older recurring one, so the good thing is he knows how to manage his own recovery for it.

He said that if someone had said at this point we'd be 5 points of the playoffs he'd probably have taken it, but has also been in the league long enough to realise we are not that far above relegation either. We have a squad of 22 tomorrow, so it's getting fitter all the time. We always wanted to consolidate this year at the very least, but the main overall aim is still to get this team to the Prem (I took this to mean not necessarily this year, but not in a negative way)

He said he made a statement after 5/6 games that this team will not be relegated and he stands by it. 

They never budgeted for the severity of the injuries, and the cost for surgeries has been astronomical. That has obviously come at a cost but it absolutely did NOT affect playing budget. 

I also asked are we having to manage the players differently to make sure they don't make the Bene mistake, and he basically said yes, and they do now. However he pointed out that we have had players putting themselves through it when we were at rock bottom injury wise. Wighton played with an injection against QP. Summers played with an injury that game too. Hammy has a sunken bone in his cheek and was warned it needed surgery or may not be able to be fixed. He was given the choice, and said he wanted the surgery. Next day, he came in and said he'd leave it and play. They told him he didn't need to do that, but he wanted to put it off so he could help the team.

(My words) I think they are trying to stress that the group has a brilliant attitude, and will run through brick walls four each other, and us. and they just wanted to acknowledge it. 

We discussed goals, and lack thereof, and the reasons behind it. When we were 3rd bottom, we had the second best defensive record in terms of goals conceded, and second only to Utd for expected goals, ie chances that should have been converted. It was margins that small that we are working under, which I agree with. 

He says that we absolutely have to be scoring goals and we need to get that in the team and they are working on this. They even considered are they working too much on it on training, were they putting them under too much pressure with it? (They weren't - they changed it up and it made no difference  but I think this dispels the part about them not being coached).

On the striker front, they said that Taylor Sutherland is knocking on the door and that they absolutely see him starting soon, and that as a finisher, he's got it, and scores barrowloads in training. He said he is a great kid with a brilliant attitude, always wants to learn and is always asking questions, wants to learn the game. So, don't be surprised to see him start a game soon...

I think this is about it, I don't think I've missed anything important. There were a couple of bits and bobs that were conversational etc, but this is the pertinent parts.

If anything isn't clear, ask below and I'll try and answer as best I can.

First of all, I'd like to thank all for their efforts and don't want my questions to sound like criticism . 

1. All these one off events as far as I'm aware occurred early season, I'm curious about how the covered losses as It was assumed the money raised was put towards further investment rather than covering planed losses.

I feel quite uncomfortable to be so far away from budget,  more than I was about the initial loss.  Planned investment is one thing, getting things wrong and having to plug gaps is another and that's too much money to misjudge.

On the point that fans would moan if we didn't invest in youth, maybe some but not me, I really don't care where our players come from,  If we can have an academy and have it run at a profit directly via player sales or indirectly by providing first team players at lower then market rate then great,  if not its pointless and probably harmful.

It's mentioned small margins in recruitment, I agree with that, but when the coin falls so often against you then you've really got to question why we can't make those small margins work for us, it wasn't like suddenly in January or February players chose to sign for other clubs, the best players in our division have since last April/may have been choosing that we are not a good fit for them.  The package we are offering simply must improve.

1 hour ago, Piracy said:

David Cook replied that they have a strategy and they're confident in the strategy.  

You've mentioned a few references to strategy in your post, was there any pushback on cook for more detail on this?  For me its a really unsatisfactory answer 'trust me there's a plan'  You're going to really struggle to get buy in with that, you need to provide some detail, a general outline on how it will work,  a timeline and intermediary targets you're going to judge its success by and if it will need readjustment.   

[Rossmcno1]

Thanks to both @Digs and @Piracy for their comprehensive notes.   Getting this info when so far away is really useful and gives me some comfort.

[livipar2]

Great updates, thanks guys!

[Piracy]

 Quote: You've mentioned a few references to strategy in your post, was there any pushback on cook for more detail on this?  For me its a really unsatisfactory answer 'trust me there's a plan'  You're going to really struggle to get buy in with that, you need to provide some detail, a general outline on how it will work,  a timeline and intermediary targets you're going to judge its success by and if it will need readjustment.

Answer: I'll set the scene in a bit of detail. The meeting started at 6pm, I awkwardly walked in at 7pm (I did chap the door). All my fault for not reading the invite properly. So I missed a whole lot of detail. Digs has captured that. In the boardroom there were around 20 people so it was quite tight for space. David Cook and James McPake sat at the head of the table and Drew Main stood for the duration at the other end of the room. I initially sat quietly took notes enjoying James McPake talking very enthusiasticly about football (personally, I like the guy and I can see he really loves it at our club and is determined to do his very best. I want him to do well).

I engaged after a wee while by getting involved in chat going on with James McPake. Once it was naturally drying up I took the opportunity to make the point I'd like to ask a few questions. The questions I aimed to get out there were from the email I sent to the club through SLO Drew Main. I'm aware the questions could be interpretted by some supporters as too intrusive and maybe not suitable for this meeting, indeed one fan said as much, but I didnt ask for my concerns to be dealt with that way. I also just like to point out I never recieved a reply to my email, but Drew Main did say to me (through alternative correspondance) he'd intended to respond to the email but thought it'd be better that the questions could be asked at the meeting so other fans could hear the answers. It's their meeting so therefore they set the agenda, in reality I suppose that didn't matter to me.

Being acutely aware of the setting and the air of positivity in the room to the point I started to ask questions, I really did not want my questions, or presence to become the dominant feature of the meeting (which I did point out). However, I did proceed to ask questions and did proceed to talk a lot, like I do when I get going. That meant I was not taking notes, which is my preferred method of capturing detail. The last section from my summary of events was from memory and theres no question detail was lost. That said, I do not believe there was detail on the specifics on club strategy, and over the loss and the 3 consecutive losses. It was more a response built on stressing the credentials, experience of the board and how they absolutely know what they're doing, fully understand what they're doing and are fully comfortable with it. I have no doubt they're intentions are honourable. I said last night my concerns are not about questioning their integrity. It's not about that, it's about thick f*ckers like me understanding why we're losing money and how are we going to arrest the situation.

Regarding the losses, I kept stressing this as my concern. I asked about the lack profit & loss detail in the club statement. David Cook said the club never published that level of detail. I thought they had in previous accounts, and like I said, I stand corrected. But, in my brain reporting a huge loss I'd like to see revenue against costs. But tbf the club aren't going to go to that level of detail on my insistence, they'll always present a high level overview in these situations. That is definitely their perogative.

Maybe, my oral articulation isn't the best, but my written articulation is usually moderately effective. But overall it is honest endeavours on my part, and speaking out I'm sure it's  to my own detriment with some fellow fans (and maybe those on the board who are interested enough in my speaking out).

Tbh I don't know why I bother too much about it all as it'll turn out how it'll turn out. 

[Deutsch Par]

Na, that's bull**** about the level of detail in previous accounts.  Every penny going in or out was labelled under the previous board.

Thanks to @Piracyand @Digsfor covering the meeting.  In the same situation as @Rossmcno1 being far away from the club.

[Al k]

Thanks for the updates guys. Really appreciate the time you've taken out.

[Grant]

Youth Academy – I’m not going to make out that I speak for many fans, but myself, and those in the friends group I go to Pars games with couldn’t care less where the players came from. Another team who were involved with Fife Elite were Raith Rovers, who do you reckon is the happier fanbase? I’m still yet to be convinced that having a youth academy is at all financially viable at this level.

 

Dispel the myth – Sounds a bit like sour grapes tbh, either way with the Nisbet transfer fee coming into this year’s account we should surely be ready to break even in these sets of accounts?

 

Winning the league 120k – The first couple of bits I just didn’t agree with based on opinion, this though conflicted with that I’d read previously. The 120k seems to low, there’s a twitter account called @SPFLWatch which has a pinned tweet detailing the league prize money, It estimates we got just shy of 150k, now if you don’t want to take this as gospel which is fair enough you can go on the SPFL website - https://spfl.co.uk/news/spfl-prize-pot-reaches-25m which has the breakdown from the 2018/19 season, where the league one winners got 125k, I’m going to lay it out there, I don’t think the prize money has went down. It also has a breakdown of how they’re distributed through the leagues, to get three times that you wouldn’t have to finish mid table (5th place in the championship does get double), you’d have to finish 3rd. For me this just set a few red flags going, if Cook has used hyperbole here where else has he done it?

 

It’s fair to not budget for first. However again I’m going to cry bull**** that finishing second was more lucrative. For one the extra 20 grand in prize money would be nice, but secondly, and this is huge for me. What crowds were they bloody budgeting for? Due to us finishing first and being in that title race we had a fantastic number of tickets sold, far more than we had in the previous season at Championship level, is Cook saying that we did budget for the sold out game against Falkirk and the trophy day against QOTS? Surely it would be more presumptuous to hope for a run in the cup to compensated for their budgetary mistakes. Surely, it’s more presumptuous to think we would have two playoff games? (If they cast there mind back, in the previous seasons Championship playoffs we had one)

 

Extra 100 quid – Well what was the case with Wotherspoon?

 

Targets going to the premier – I’ve not got it in me to pull up the quote, but I’m absolutely positive this was also said last year and it annoyed me then. “Not going to apologise for the club having ambitious targets” A couple of paragraphs ago he didn’t want to sound presumptuous by saying we were going for the League one title!

 

International player – Now it might again, be a nonsense but there was a post from a family friend of Tommy Smith who said the issue was that he wanted a deal to the end of next season, whereas we wanted one to the end of this season. I don’t think anyone accused Malakai of being a panic signing. Xavier and Holmes on the other hand… Again with the £100, would he put a monetary value on how much we lost out to Wotherspoon?

 

Good thing about Chris Kanes injury – I’m not sure at all it’s a good thing it’s a recurrence of an old injury tbh, I’m looking at my third knee surgery soon and the last thing I thought when it flared up was “Awch, it’s good that I know the rehab for that”.

 

Not far above the relegation playoffs either – Correct, it’s one point above the relegation playoffs, and I’d imagine if you offered that to people at this stage they wouldn’t be pleased, the reaction and mood of the fanbase reflects that, is this a fanbase that is happy to be 5 points off the playoffs, or is it one that is concerned with how close they are to relegation?

 

To get this team to the prem – How long do they think that will take before we put in a sustained push for promotion? If they thought this year was about consolidation, should next year be considered a year for challenging, and will McPakes performance be measure against that?

 

They will run through brick walls for each other, and us – Would’ve liked to have heard McPakes thoughts on why the group seem to fold like a deck of cards when we go a couple of goals down then tbh.

 

Xg – A massive concern/bugbear of mine was this, the screenshot that Cook had of the Xg is from an utter nonsense website that doesn’t reflect Xg at all. Does anyone genuinely believe having watched us all season that we are created numerous gilt-edged chances a game? Absolutely not. We’re also joint 3rd bottom now; we have the 5th best defensive record. Whilst having the second worst number of goals scored, those aren’t tight margins.

 

Dispels them not being coached – Does it? I could go in and coach the team next week on how to score more goals, would it work? Probably not. I don’t imagine I would be very good at it, I don’t doubt that the coaching team are working on it, what I have massive doubts about is that they’re actually solving and rectifying the issue which is the real measure of success. We weren’t good at it last year, we’re worse at it this year. For me the problem isn’t the lack of converting chances into goals, the only this season I thought that was a real issue was Inverness and Airdrie at home recently. We just don’t actually create chances to bloody miss, for all the domination of the ball we had against Raith Rovers we had one chance where you felt we were unlucky to score, that’s awful.

 

Discussion on how good a lot of our play in games has been – I hope this was a short discussion, we’ve been turgid and awful to watch for the most part.

 

Putting out frequent statements would be repetitive – Would it? Keeping the fans informed wouldn’t be adding a great deal of value? As was mentioned we did get a new physio weeks ago, why wouldn’t that warrant an article on the COWs? Likewise the director? Our communication is about as far from repetitive as it can be because it’s non-existent, it’s little wonder the board aren’t putting out a detailed and coherent business plan outlining there plans, for one it would give the fans something to measure there progress by, and two we can’t be ***ed with the little things, let alone the important things.

 

Accounts – I’m also not an accountant, but is this on Page 13 what you were meaning @Piracy https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=89978449&url=https://dafc.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2023/05/2021-05-31_DAFC_Annual_Report_and_Financial_Statements.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwiblMCz7fWEAxVsQUEAHW-OD4gQFnoECCoQAQ&usg=AOvVaw3YrM15Xb2pjMAWVvL2bxel

2021-05-31_DAFC_Annual_Report_and_Financial_Statements (2).pdf

? As well as this you would also have a detailed breakdown by the previous board at the end of the season etc.

 

 

 

Apologies for how negative this comes across, but I remain utterly unconvinced with a few things by the club. Again though massive thanks to Piracy and Digs for going along in the evening in there spare time, and then spending more time in the evening writing it all up. While I may feel uneasy about some of the information given out, it’s undoubtedly a plus point that these meetings happen in the first place. 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited March 15 by Grant

[Piracy]

I'd suggest that the recent noise from the Patrons meeting and on social media, and the email I sent were influencing factors in the club calling last night's meeting. They're obviously keen to quell any unease, which is the right thing to do. But I'm still not convinced by the answers given. That's my issue.