Extremists

[Vinnie]

Something has to be done now before the next lunatic who hates Britain will harm innocent people. 

Shut the borders down and lets deal with the lunatics that we have intelligence on and get them out. I can totally understand why England voted for Brexit.

What happened last night was disgusting and I hope something is done to stop another attack but I doubt it.

Shutting the borders doesn't help if its somebody UK born and bred. 

[Secure Par]

But it does stop movement until we deal with these nut jobs.

[El Patrón]

WE NEED TO BUILD A WALL

 

 

Quite a few people on this thread are starting to sound extreme themselves 

I noticed you voted down my post above but have offered nothing to the argument in question, other than another post focusing on the people who are speaking out against these things, rather than solutions to stop the ones actually doing it?

This seems to be a common theme in this country, people will spend more time targeting those who do speak up, rather than those who carry out such atrocities?

We will have another candlelight vigil at the scene, everyone will declare "it's time to stand together" & "we will not be divided or defeated" by these people, people will change their profile pictures on social media sites and a hashtag will be setup to show support on twitter "#prayformanchester" or such like. We will then go back to our day to day lives and wait until the next one happens, with nothing ever being done to get to the root of the problem or try and prevent it due to fear of being branded a racist.

[Teuchter]

What makes you think nothing is being done - from all communities?

What makes you sure that Muslims all over the world do not condem, not only attacks, but the brand of Islam behind them? 

I am still not clear as to what you are suggesting either. 

 

 

 

 

 

[El Patrón]

I am saying that I do not believe the attacks that have been carried out here, from the 7/7 bombings to Lee Rigby (and probably last night, awaiting confirmation) were carried out without anyone else knowing prior? Without a doubt people from within these communities/people who attend the same Mosque's etc know who the radicalised extremists amongst them are and that someone will have had prior knowledge or at the very least a suspicion of these "lone wolf" attacks. It's time they came forward and started confronting them and informing the authorites.

Also, people within these communities will know fine well who is carrying out the radicalistion of the naive and vulnerable. Step up and put an end to them.

Edited to say: The people within these communities do always come out after such atrocities have occurred and condemn them, I just think they could do more to prevent them in the first place. There is only so much our police/intelligence services can do.

[SanguinePar]

‌@‌SanguinePar, I think you have illustrated ‌@El Patrón's point perfectly. 

How so?

[SanguinePar]

What makes you think nothing is being done - from all communities?

This.

Plus, why is there the assumption that the 'Muslim communities' always know all about all the other Muslims in their area? Do you (anyone, not you Teuchter) know all of your neighbours so well as to be sure they're not dodgy? Or to be sure enough to report them to the police?

Did Thomas Hamilton's 'community' know he was up to something and do nothing? Or Timothy McVeigh's? Or Andreas Baader's?

I think it's a (common) mistake to lump all Muslims (across the world, in the UK, in one city or even one street) together as if they are some homogenous group. They're just people living their lives. 

[Teuchter]

I am not sure if it is certain that there will be knowledge of the attacks. The idiots on the street with the British Soldiers placards - they are out in the open and draw attention to themselves. Next down from that would be those that go to Syria. There are probably signs before hand that they will go. For the calculated terrorists, like those that carried out last night's attack, I imagine they are something different altogether and would not seek attention. Discipline would probably be a factor also. This is jus my guess.

The situation is not helped by the hypocrisy at the top. Trump, in Saudi, whilst signing a massive defense contract, laid into Iran ( to please his hosts). Meanwhile Saudi funded proselytising radical mosques in Pakistan go unmentioned but have been responsible for many more deaths of innocents than have so far have been caused in Europe.

[Vinnie]

‌@‌SanguinePar, I think you have illustrated ‌@El Patrón's point perfectly. 

How so?

By inferring that El Patron is a bigot and a racist, because he dared to broach the subject from a view you oppose.  Fine, debate the point, but don't slur the man for discussing a topic and holding a different view from your own.

What makes you think nothing is being done - from all communities?

This.

Plus, why is there the assumption that the 'Muslim communities' always know all about all the other Muslims in their area? Do you (anyone, not you Teuchter) know all of your neighbours so well as to be sure they're not dodgy? Or to be sure enough to report them to the police?

No I don't know all my neighbours.  And I accept that there are some generalisations in this topic, as there will be more as the thread continues.

I'll start, by saying that generally, Muslims are religious and many will visit their local Mosque.  I don't have the figures, but I imagine for every 10 churches or 20 churches, there is a single Mosque.  That makes the Mosque a community focal point.  I can quite imagine that the local Mosque is where preachers can recruit the young minds in the first instance, before the venue of teachings moves to houses, or industrial units....

I know that folk are "missing" from my bus trip into work, faces I see most days.  That example could be easily cross over into folk not seeing the same faces at Mosques over a period? - of course, that's not a guarantee that someone "missing" from the Mosque is a bomber.

Incidently.....

ISIS have claimed responsibility now.   

 

[SanguinePar]

‌@‌SanguinePar, I think you have illustrated ‌@El Patrón's point perfectly. 

How so?

By inferring that El Patron is a bigot and a racist, because he dared to broach the subject from a view you oppose.  Fine, debate the point, but don't slur the man for discussing a topic and holding a different view from your own.

I started by saying that making assumptions that Muslims were responsible for last night was a bad idea. I stand by that. It is a bad idea.

If you (or he) took from it that I was implying he was racist, that's your problem.

 

 

What makes you think nothing is being done - from all communities?

This.

Plus, why is there the assumption that the 'Muslim communities' always know all about all the other Muslims in their area? Do you (anyone, not you Teuchter) know all of your neighbours so well as to be sure they're not dodgy? Or to be sure enough to report them to the police?

No I don't know all my neighbours.  And I accept that there are some generalisations in this topic, as there will be more as the thread continues.

I'll start, by saying that generally, Muslims are religious and many will visit their local Mosque.  I don't have the figures, but I imagine for every 10 churches or 20 churches, there is a single Mosque.  That makes the Mosque a community focal point.  I can quite imagine that the local Mosque is where preachers can recruit the young minds in the first instance, before the venue of teachings moves to houses, or industrial units....

I know that folk are "missing" from my bus trip into work, faces I see most days.  That example could be easily cross over into folk not seeing the same faces at Mosques over a period? - of course, that's not a guarantee that someone "missing" from the Mosque is a bomber.

A lot of assumptions being made there.

 

Incidently.....

ISIS have claimed responsibility now.   

 

I saw that yeah. They tend to claim responsibility for a lot of things, but this at least is a first bit of information to indicate that what was being assumed at the top of the thread might be right. I still stand by the principle of not jumping to conclusions about something so serious without evidence.

[El Patrón]

‌@‌SanguinePar, I think you have illustrated ‌@El Patrón's point perfectly. 

How so?

By inferring that El Patron is a bigot and a racist, because he dared to broach the subject from a view you oppose.  Fine, debate the point, but don't slur the man for discussing a topic and holding a different view from your own.

I started by saying that making assumptions that Muslims were responsible for last night was a bad idea. I stand by that. It is a bad idea.

If you (or he) took from it that I was implying he was racist, that's your problem.

 

 

What makes you think nothing is being done - from all communities?

This.

Plus, why is there the assumption that the 'Muslim communities' always know all about all the other Muslims in their area? Do you (anyone, not you Teuchter) know all of your neighbours so well as to be sure they're not dodgy? Or to be sure enough to report them to the police?

No I don't know all my neighbours.  And I accept that there are some generalisations in this topic, as there will be more as the thread continues.

I'll start, by saying that generally, Muslims are religious and many will visit their local Mosque.  I don't have the figures, but I imagine for every 10 churches or 20 churches, there is a single Mosque.  That makes the Mosque a community focal point.  I can quite imagine that the local Mosque is where preachers can recruit the young minds in the first instance, before the venue of teachings moves to houses, or industrial units....

I know that folk are "missing" from my bus trip into work, faces I see most days.  That example could be easily cross over into folk not seeing the same faces at Mosques over a period? - of course, that's not a guarantee that someone "missing" from the Mosque is a bomber.

A lot of assumptions being made there.

 

Incidently.....

ISIS have claimed responsibility now.   

 

I saw that yeah. They tend to claim responsibility for a lot of things, but this at least is a first bit of information to indicate that what was being assumed at the top of the thread might be right. I still stand by the principle of not jumping to conclusions about something so serious without evidence.

You wrongly assumed I had jumped to conclusions, when the thread was generally talking about extremism.

You also decided to show a blog about Tommy Robinson, where a few known racists happened to be photographed with him and said I would be comfortable with this? As I said before, anyone can be photographed with anyone - it proved nothing other than to try and back up your views of me. You also wrongly described him as "my hero" when all I did was say, he has made a lot of good points over the years when it comes to extremism.

You have also offered nothing to this other than to infer racism and take the moral high ground.

There is an obvious issue in society, yet everyone would rather dance around it and get offended by those who dare to speak out against it, rather than tackle the problems at hand.

[Vinnie]

 

What makes you think nothing is being done - from all communities?

This.

Plus, why is there the assumption that the 'Muslim communities' always know all about all the other Muslims in their area? Do you (anyone, not you Teuchter) know all of your neighbours so well as to be sure they're not dodgy? Or to be sure enough to report them to the police?

No I don't know all my neighbours.  And I accept that there are some generalisations in this topic, as there will be more as the thread continues.

I'll start, by saying that generally, Muslims are religious and many will visit their local Mosque.  I don't have the figures, but I imagine for every 10 churches or 20 churches, there is a single Mosque.  That makes the Mosque a community focal point.  I can quite imagine that the local Mosque is where preachers can recruit the young minds in the first instance, before the venue of teachings moves to houses, or industrial units....

I know that folk are "missing" from my bus trip into work, faces I see most days.  That example could be easily cross over into folk not seeing the same faces at Mosques over a period? - of course, that's not a guarantee that someone "missing" from the Mosque is a bomber.

A lot of assumptions being made there.

Cant say I didn't warn you

[El Patrón]

[Guest The Beer Baron]

Yes, please stop these attacks... Now I'm a bigot...come on eh!

[Vinnie]

Ultimately, we all want the same thing, to live safely, without fear that someone wants to blow us up.  The big issue is how we get there.  Sending love to the victims and their families, and they do have all my sympathy, doesn't stop these attacks, there needs to be more positive action.

I think these days we give too many folk a courtesy.  When I was a kid, a chap at the door by the cops was something to fear, these days its a badge of honour.  We have fewer cops on the street, they have less power.  Would more police help?  Maybe?