KDM Group East End Park.

[Piracy]

Yeah the 2 last managerial appointments were pish,  no debate there from me. 

[Piracy]

3 hours ago, Secure Par said:

Exactly RM but again the sun shines out of our GMBH investors with a 75% takeover and now the stadium has a new name… what other plans are in the pipeline? 
 

I don't think the sun shines out their proverbial.

Plans,  of course they have plans,  I'd be worried if they didn't.  But are you suggesting the plans they do have are either dishonorable or going to undermine the clubs future wellbeing? If so please enlighten us,  I'd be personally interested to hear your thoughts.  If you're on to something them I'm all for discussing it. 

[Rengade Master]

23 minutes ago, Piracy said:

Well aware of the community ethos,  not sure back in the day it was something you wholeheartedly embraced.  But forgive me if I got that wrong. Being sceptical is okay,  having an alternative opinion is okay.  However you've been inconsistent in your opinions. You have been critical of Ross McArthur,  who you openly accused of running out on the club because he apparently knew something controversial was in the pipeline.  Now you're saying you preferred what happened under his tenureship. You said that that GmbH Fussball were here because their intentions was to sell off our ground to a German supermarket chain. That's a pretty complex and rubbish business plan being honest. I don't claim to know the former Chairman well but I made a judgement many years ago he is a decent, honest man with principles and integrity.  A man who,  when in charge done his best to grow the club.  He went out and brought in fresh investment and he explained about the lengthy and arduous process of getting the right type of investors for the club to progress. Using his judgement,  a judgement that stood him in good stead given what he done to save the club and served him well in becoming a successful self made man.  Nick Teller is by all accounts a man of integrity.  Thomas Meggle spent most of his time involved at all levels with St Pauli,  a club who are renowned world wide for their remarkable socially inclusive club ethos. I've no problems with their intentions. I do think they can improve on their communications,  but then again they have been improving since CEO Cook has been shoving his feet further under the table.  I see us top of our league,  I see the NW season ticket numbers growing and I see the passion among the younger element every home and away game growing. I hear McPake saying he's frustrated at the type of player he wants not being available,  I'm also sure he mentioned the board being frustrated too.  I believe there's budget available, but it will be a budget with restrictions,  which will be linked with financial prudence. A legacy of Ross McArthurs ethos while in charge.  Happy to hear different opinions from fellow fans,  but not conjecture based on Internet research suggesting foul play without any real basis. 

Wow I’ve given my support to Ross’s tenure as better than the current tenure! You appear to be a club lapdog! If not more than to dismiss any criticism of the current board! The information I posted is from companies house! Not internet conjecture! I’ll post the screenshot! Wow.

[Rengade Master]

Also don’t forget Jim Leishman resigned his post as director of the club he would die for at the same time! Something is not right and you know it but you are so quick to defend every negative view of what is blatantly obvious, things are not adding up! We have investors who are not investing and have shown a blatant disregard to what is happening on the pitch! On top of that have accumulated wealth historically by………..do your own research! 

[Piracy]

5 hours ago, Rengade Master said:

Also don’t forget Jim Leishman resigned his post as director of the club he would die for at the same time! Something is not right and you know it but you are so quick to defend every negative view of what is blatantly obvious, things are not adding up! We have investors who are not investing and have shown a blatant disregard to what is happening on the pitch! On top of that have accumulated wealth historically by………..do your own research! 

Jim Leishman resigned (along with others) as part of the boardroom shuffle earlier this year.  He's still involved on match days and very much in and around the club. So I wouldn't accept your opinion it's an indication something isn't right.  I would just call it your opinion. Boardroom reshuffles are necessary,  especially when you have new owners becoming more involved (as the pandemic easedm),  Ross McArthur and Chris (Kip) McBay resigning and a new CEO,  David Cook coming in. 

'' Something is not right and you know it but you are so quick to defend every negative view of what is blatantly obvious, things are not adding up!''

No,  I don't know it and nothing is blatantly obvious to me apart from you've made that up.  I'm not defending negative views,  I'm deliberately (and consistently)  calling people out on conjecture,  assumptions and challenging opinions I disagree with. 

Investors are not investing?,  what apart from Gmnh Fussball firing in a huge amount of cash and Iain Jones throwing in even more of his own money through KDM. That aside,  of course some people will choose not to invest for any amount of reasons. Could be because they disagree with club strategy,  don't like the owner(s),  can't excert the level of influence they'd like,  might not be suiting their ego: that's life,  that's often politics and that's people. 

Thankfully the majority of Pars do still invest given season ticket sales, hospitality sales,  early match attendances etc. That's a pretty good indication that most Pars fans aren't too perturbed about supposition online but more worried about the team,  results and the fact we're not signing players just now. Incidently I didn't 'research'  any of that. 

[Piracy]

6 hours ago, Rengade Master said:

Wow I’ve given my support to Ross’s tenure as better than the current tenure! You appear to be a club lapdog! If not more than to dismiss any criticism of the current board! The information I posted is from companies house! Not internet conjecture! I’ll post the screenshot! Wow.

No I'm not a 'lapdog',  and don't go down the route of starting to throw insults. Always remember it's a privilege to post here,  not a right.  

I have been critical and will continue to be critical of the club when I feel it's necessary,  relevant and justified. It is also about being honest and fair. 

Let's be honest here,  you've been dealing in conjecture for a while.  One screenshot proves nothing. You said Ross McArthur resigned because he knew things weren't right at the club.  Blatantly untrue and unsubstantiated. You're also saying now somethings not right since the new owners come in: inclusive of an elaborate plan to sell off the ground to a supermarket chain. You've not provided one piece of factual evidence (on here) to give any of those examples credibility. 

So once again I'll say it,  no issues with folk posting their views,  just try and make sure it's fair,  balanced and factual. 

[Rengade Master]

That’s fine, but I don’t think I have ever seen figures mentioned, so I’m looking to be corrected. How much has it cost GmbH so far to take a 75% controlling interest in the club and a 25% stake in the stadium? Hard cash handed over to date. Not future spending, not promises, money directly to the club! 

[Number Eleven]

I thought that GmbH bought a shareholding but the investment to take them to 75% was done via a loan note which would be converted to share ownership within a set timeframe.

Given past events we should definitely pay attention to what is happening behind the scenes. Hopefully the intentions of gmbh are benign, I still find it a completely bizarre use of their money, but the alternative proposal is even more bizarre.

The most important thing in football is the performance on the park and over the course of the GmbH tenure that has been pretty poor. There have been some signs of improvement this season but it’s early days.

[Rossmcno1]

42 minutes ago, Rengade Master said:

That’s fine, but I don’t think I have ever seen figures mentioned, so I’m looking to be corrected. How much has it cost GmbH so far to take a 75% controlling interest in the club and a 25% stake in the stadium? Hard cash handed over to date. Not future spending, not promises, money directly to the club! 

£640k - was it not shown in the most recent accounts?  
 

And as for the screenshot, why is that a problem?  

Get along to the supporters forum and ask the questions directly.  Genuinely, if there are folk wanting to find out stuff, go to the source.  This “I’ve done my own research” Only takes credibility so far. 
 

Otherwise it just comes across as anonymous **** stirring tbh.

[rosythpar]

I think we have all been a bit disappointed in the way Fussball GMBH's tenure has went so far. I think we all expected something new and exciting but it has all been the same so far. None of the plans they told us have came to fruition yet but still time for them to see through with them. I think the biggest mistake they made was letting the Pars United guys being involved in picking the new manager after Crawford left, they have even admitted in the past that they needed help on the football side of things. The Peter Grant appointment has probably set us back at least 3/4 years.

One of the plans they told us when they came in was that they would be using Meggle's contacts to bring in players. Clyde have managed to bring in foreign players, why haven't we when the Scottish market has been very difficult for us this window?

They also said they didn't want to be invisible owners but the only one who seems to travel over is Meggle and at the last supporters meeting he stood at the back of the room. We have rarely seen or heard from the man behind the group,Gunndermann. Keretic is suppose to still be involved in the marketing side but again we never hear from him. I hope I am wrong but i think we will hear/see from them less now that they have Cook running the club for them. 

They do have a long term plan so let's hope they stick by us and we see the new training ground going as planned, see them bring through young players to sell on in 10+ years time and see the club improving on the pitch and getting up the leagues.

It would be good to hear from them so we know they are still interested and committed in the long term to the club. 

The KDM sponsorship will be a very good deal for the club I think.I was speaking to someone yesterday who was telling me about some of the contracts they have got and it sounds like a good company to have involved. 

 

[scottyboy]

I don't think anyone is under any illusions regarding the new board. If they walk away sometime in the distant future making themselves a a profit, then I've not got a problem with it. They'll have invested wisely if that happens. I'd only have a problem if they leave us worse off. This is a big season for them, which probably means promotion to get out of the 3rd Division. If they don't get things right, then the fans will turn on them. New guy Cook has come in to make us more professional and generate income. He deserves a chance to show his skills. Back on topic, doesn't matter what the stadium is called just now, just keep a winning team on the park. Still never been this season yet, trying to justify ma spending against entertainment value just now. Maybe get along sometime. 

[Rossmcno1]

I’m prepared to give the new guys a fair bit of time still.  I think last season was such a tough one for them, and they have to carry some of the blame, however they trusted the incumbents to make the operational decisions, and couldn’t do much else but back it all up.  How would it have looked if our “distant owners” had meddled and openly went against the wishes of Ross and the home based directors/decision makers at the time?  
 

Investors invest in people, and they clearly invested in Ross and the board at the time of onboarding.  Think it’s no secret that they were shocked at the treatment he got off a very small (but loud enough!) section off our support.  That shock has had an impact on their behaviour, however they do seem committed in terms of finance and planning in the background.  Teller was at the forum when Hughes was there and was very open with his feedback and his thoughts on plans.  Meggle was at the last forum, but while he was in the room it was clear he wanted to give Cook and McPake the space to run the session.  Keretic moved out to accommodate Cook but is still involved.  Gundermann was never on the board.  Would be nice to hear from them but really what are they going to say? “Still here and committed” which would probably prompt more questions.
 

They have put the backing up for the training ground, that is taking time but the commitment is there in my opinion and we are there training.

 

I personally would like to see much more of the invention and difference that having a German based backing group you would think would give, including players etc.   

 

Prepared to give them more time and would like to think the forum would see more questions of them come through to our minds at rest.

[The Roy Barry Fan Club]

There seems to be some degree of misunderstanding on the financial side of things. Perhaps I could help to clarify?

The initial GmbH investment was announced as 30% and the accounts very clearly indicate that they injected £600k in cash at that time.

GmbH then (about a year later) made an irrevocable loan which allows them to convert the loan into a further 50% of DAFC Ltd shares when they wish. They have put the cash in for this it was announced. 

They do not own 25% of Pars United (East End Park) Ltd. They have a golden share which gives them 25% of the votes at an AGM or EGM, and that is a very different thing from owning 25% of the company. For example, the golden share has no rights to dividends. That golden share was designed to protect the effective owner of the football club (which is what GmbH is) in relation to the stadium. It is of course open to GmbH to offer the existing shareholders of the stadium for the 100% of ordinary share equity in their hands. This they have not done as yet. They might do so; they might not.

All of the money from KDM for naming rights goes to DAFC. This is because the football club holds a long term lease on the East End Park. During that lease, the football club can call the ground what it wishes. 

In addition I know that the directors who live in Germany are in very close contact with their colleagues in  Scotland, are intimately involved in both playing and non playing decisions and are financially supportive. In short, from a financial perspective they are to be warmly welcomed. I am glad that they are with us.

 

[SanguinePar]

That's reassuring stuff @The Roy Barry Fan Club - I still can't help having my concerns about the whole thing, but I'm confident you know much more about it than I do.

[Rengade Master]

4 hours ago, The Roy Barry Fan Club said:

There seems to be some degree of misunderstanding on the financial side of things. Perhaps I could help to clarify?

The initial GmbH investment was announced as 30% and the accounts very clearly indicate that they injected £600k in cash at that time.

GmbH then (about a year later) made an irrevocable loan which allows them to convert the loan into a further 50% of DAFC Ltd shares when they wish. They have put the cash in for this it was announced. 

They do not own 25% of Pars United (East End Park) Ltd. They have a golden share which gives them 25% of the votes at an AGM or EGM, and that is a very different thing from owning 25% of the company. For example, the golden share has no rights to dividends. That golden share was designed to protect the effective owner of the football club (which is what GmbH is) in relation to the stadium. It is of course open to GmbH to offer the existing shareholders of the stadium for the 100% of ordinary share equity in their hands. This they have not done as yet. They might do so; they might not.

All of the money from KDM for naming rights goes to DAFC. This is because the football club holds a long term lease on the East End Park. During that lease, the football club can call the ground what it wishes. 

In addition I know that the directors who live in Germany are in very close contact with their colleagues in  Scotland, are intimately involved in both playing and non playing decisions and are financially supportive. In short, from a financial perspective they are to be warmly welcomed. I am glad that they are with us.

 

TRBFC

I was clear that they only had 25% of the vote in the stadium but with the agreement of 1 other director any vote would carry.

You have pointed out the second part of the investment was unannounced so we were not aware of it. However that amount has also not been revealed and as much as it is an irrevocable loan it still remains as a loan on the books and could be called in if the situation changes.

As it stands GmbH have acquired DAFC and a controlling interest in EEP for £600k.

We are selling off naming rights to the stadium to bring in additional funds while we have multi millionaires in charge of our club?