Armed forces members get in to EEP for a fiver on Saturday

[Grant]

Piracy absolutely nailing it there, some fantastic posts. 

[DA-go Par Adonis]

The Band and Pipers of the Scots Guard have a concert in the Abbey tomorrow.  As they are in town already, the club have seemingly extended the welcome and invited them along to the match tomorrow. 

The armed forces for a fiver initiative has obviously come on the back of it.  

[Superally]

Frankly, anything that beats Scott Mills Music dirge is welcomed from me. If the Scots Guards can play "Into the Valley" my day will probably be made 🤣  

[Digs]

24 minutes ago, Superally said:

Frankly, anything that beats Scott Mills Music dirge is welcomed from me. If the Scots Guards can play "Into the Valley" my day will probably be made 🤣  

I think you mean Steven Mill. Not quite Scott Mills, Scott Mills aff wish 🤣

You need to get down with the kids mate, gets some boom-diggy boom roond ye 🤣

[Superally]

1 minute ago, Digs said:

I think you mean Steven Mill. Not quite Scott Mills, Scott Mills aff wish 🤣

You need to get down with the kids mate, gets some boom-diggy boom roond ye 🤣

🤣

[SanguinePar]

6 hours ago, Piracy said:

Service personnel are duty bound to defend our society, that's their primary function. I'd say every country needs to be able to defend itself. It's those making the decsions in Government who are the issue, not those serving.

Indeed - a point I made in the OP :-)

[SanguinePar]

4 hours ago, Digs said:

Some of the hand wringing going on here is baffling to me.

Like what? No handwringing from me - I simply asked a question about why the club is giving a discount to people with one job, and not to people with other jobs. Thus far, nobody has addressed that question other than to speculate that it's related to a block booking (which, again - would that apply to other jobs? I think we all know it wouldn't) It's not an unreasonable question to ask.

 

4 hours ago, Digs said:

As Piracy says, you can disagree vehemently with successive governments foreign policy and still support people in the forces

Which I said in my OP.

 

It's quite telling to see how even the idea of questioning something relating to the armed forces has seen a bit of a pile-on of people disparaging even asking the question.

IMO armed forces members should be treated with respect, fairness and empathy - with decent pay and conditions, and proper support (both financial and emotional) when they leave.

What they should not be IMO is revered or considered unquestionable, simply because they are in the forces. I suspect they wouldn't want that either tbh.

[Eastendtales]

5 minutes ago, SanguinePar said:

Like what? No handwringing from me - I simply asked a question about why the club is giving a discount to people with one job, and not to people with other jobs. Thus far, nobody has addressed that question other than to speculate that it's related to a block booking (which, again - would that apply to other jobs? I think we all know it wouldn't) It's not an unreasonable question to ask.

 

Which I said in my OP.

 

It's quite telling to see how even the idea of questioning something relating to the armed forces has seen a bit of a pile-on of people disparaging even asking the question.

IMO armed forces members should be treated with respect, fairness and empathy - with decent pay and conditions, and proper support (both financial and emotional) when they leave.

What they should not be IMO is revered or considered unquestionable, simply because they are in the forces. I suspect they wouldn't want that either tbh.

I don't think anyone here is disagreeing with those points.

If the club promoted an NHS staff day or something, that'd be fantastic. However, they can't do everyone and I'm assuming there's a connection in house to this group. 

[Digs]

1 hour ago, SanguinePar said:

Like what? No handwringing from me - I simply asked a question about why the club is giving a discount to people with one job, and not to people with other jobs. Thus far, nobody has addressed that question other than to speculate that it's related to a block booking (which, again - would that apply to other jobs? I think we all know it wouldn't) It's not an unreasonable question to ask.

Which I said in my OP.

It's quite telling to see how even the idea of questioning something relating to the armed forces has seen a bit of a pile-on of people disparaging even asking the question.

IMO armed forces members should be treated with respect, fairness and empathy - with decent pay and conditions, and proper support (both financial and emotional) when they leave.

What they should not be IMO is revered or considered unquestionable, simply because they are in the forces. I suspect they wouldn't want that either tbh.

The inference seemed clear to me, certainly from some posts, that we shouldn't have anything to do with the armed forces from a political perspective when this isn't that. I'd assume, and it is just my perception based on my assumption, that there are other clubs who do almost fetishize the armed forces and the concern is that is what is happening here. It seems reasonably clear, to me at least, from some posts that this is being implied. 

We also invite lots of community groups to East End for less than a fiver, ie free, and as I said, who's to say this isn't the start of initiatives like this, as I said, a 'blue light' discount would be an example? 

I'm also not joining any pile on, that seems a bit dramatic to be honest. Multiple people disagreeing with you isn't a pile on. I just disagree with the inference that there are some underlying motive for doing this. It just seems like nice thing to do. I don't hold any such opinion that members of the armed forces should be revered or unquestionable and I'm actually laughing at that thought that I might be. That's definitely not me.

 

[The Roy Barry Fan Club]

20 hours ago, parsforlife said:

We have no need to recognise the armed forces as a club,  especially not the current ones.  the McCraes battalion yes.  As for the bench? That only has tenuous ties to the club and really was put there as he was related to a board member.

As regards the bench, perhaps I should give some more background? This was a gift from Cooperative Funeralcare around the time that the UK government decided in 2014 to give a Victoria Cross paving stone to the home town of every VC winner in WWI in the UK on the hundredth anniversary of them winning the VC. This was to be located in the local authority by agreement between the family and the relevant Council.  It happens that Dunfermline had two Victoria Cross winners in the First World War. These were John Erskine who won his VC in June 1916 and David Hunter  who won his VC in September 1918. I know for a fact that Pars United CIC and Pars United (East End Park) Ltd offered BOTH families the opportunity to place their paving slabs on plinths at East End Park, together with a history board on the outside wall of East End Park as a matter of civic pride. The Erskine family decided after some deliberation and several meetings to opt for a site near their former family draper's shop in Bridge Street and one of the things which influenced them was that John Erskine was not particularly interested in sport. The Hunter family took up the offer hence the plinth (which keeps the paving slab more likely to be free from dirt, chewing gum and damage), the history board and the bench. The connection was that David Hunter had been at virtually every Dunfermline home game (war service excepted) from around 1900 to his death in the early 1960s, and he had lived in a variety of houses in West Fife without any location being particularly significant. It is also true that one grandson was on the DAFC Board and another had been a prominent coach at the Club in the 1980s and 1990s. However having been a supporter, man and boy for over sixty years I would hope that that is not a tenuous relationship. I am at that milestone myself. However, the Club would have been just as delighted to have had John Erskine's memorial there too. 

So we very nearly had two granite benches.  

[Piracy]

59 minutes ago, The Roy Barry Fan Club said:

As regards the bench, perhaps I should give some more background? This was a gift from Cooperative Funeralcare around the time that the UK government decided in 2014 to give a Victoria Cross paving stone to the home town of every VC winner in WWI in the UK on the hundredth anniversary of them winning the VC. This was to be located in the local authority by agreement between the family and the relevant Council.  It happens that Dunfermline had two Victoria Cross winners in the First World War. These were John Erskine who won his VC in June 1916 and David Hunter  who won his VC in September 1918. I know for a fact that Pars United CIC and Pars United (East End Park) Ltd offered BOTH families the opportunity to place their paving slabs on plinths at East End Park, together with a history board on the outside wall of East End Park as a matter of civic pride. The Erskine family decided after some deliberation and several meetings to opt for a site near their former family draper's shop in Bridge Street and one of the things which influenced them was that John Erskine was not particularly interested in sport. The Hunter family took up the offer hence the plinth (which keeps the paving slab more likely to be free from dirt, chewing gum and damage), the history board and the bench. The connection was that David Hunter had been at virtually every Dunfermline home game (war service excepted) from around 1900 to his death in the early 1960s, and he had lived in a variety of houses in West Fife without any location being particularly significant. It is also true that one grandson was on the DAFC Board and another had been a prominent coach at the Club in the 1980s and 1990s. However having been a supporter, man and boy for over sixty years I would hope that that is not a tenuous relationship. I am at that milestone myself. However, the Club would have been just as delighted to have had John Erskine's memorial there too. 

So we very nearly had two granite benches.  

Great read, any clears up any ambiguity, if there ever was any. 

[SanguinePar]

3 hours ago, Digs said:

it is just my perception based on my assumption, that there are other clubs who do almost fetishize the armed forces and the concern is that is what is happening here.

Not quite - my initial post was a question about why it was happening. Not an implication that there was some murky reason, nor an argument that it shouldn't. If it had been, I would hardly have started off by saying that it may be useful to people, would I?

I'd certainly like the Pars not to get drawn into the kind of fetishisation you describe though - hence my asking the question in the first place. I don't really see what the problem is with that.

 

3 hours ago, Digs said:

It seems reasonably clear, to me at least, from some posts that this is being implied. 

We also invite lots of community groups to East End for less than a fiver, ie free, and as I said, who's to say this isn't the start of initiatives like this, as I said, a 'blue light' discount would be an example? 

We'll see if that happens.

 

3 hours ago, Digs said:

I'm also not joining any pile on, that seems a bit dramatic to be honest.

No more dramatic than the term "hand-wringing" tbh. And I did say "a bit of a pile on".

 

3 hours ago, Digs said:

Multiple people disagreeing with you isn't a pile on.

People may be disagreeing with the inference they're drawing from the OP, but all I did was ask the question, I didn't imply anything, so there's nothing to disagree with, other than my decision to ask about it.

 

3 hours ago, Digs said:

I just disagree with the inference that there are some underlying motive for doing this. It just seems like nice thing to do. I don't hold any such opinion that members of the armed forces should be revered or unquestionable and I'm actually laughing at that thought that I might be. That's definitely not me.

So we agree then that it's fine to ask questions on this sort of subject?

[Lochalsh Par]

I spent 44 years of my life supporting the very best people in the world - the British Armed Forces. From missiles to toilet rolls they got my attention. I have been with them at the very front line. I know what they do, how they do it and what they have to put up with. Anybody who has an issue with this initiative needs to have a very hard look at themselves and needs look to the Balkans, invasion of Kuwait and Ukraine. Naïve stupidity gets you invaded. Did WW1 and WW2 teach you anything?

[SanguinePar]

37 minutes ago, Lochalsh Par said:

Did WW1 and WW2 teach you anything?

Yes, of course, Hitler's reign of terror most surely would have been prevented if he'd only been offered 5 pfennig entry to Braunau am Inn FC as a lad...

[buspasspar]

I'm going to sum this whole thread up in one word .... Fifers